Dongle?? WIll Philharmonik have one??

[Kim Lajoie]

If the dongle breaks/is lost, we have to buy a secondary license?! That's the impression I got from one of Squids' posts. When you lose the key to your house, you don't have to re-buy the house at a lower price - you just buy a new key. The key is not the product - the software is the product, and the key is only a key to that software - it would be crazy to have to re-buy the license, even at a lower price, just because something happened to the dongle.

Nothing concrete has been announced regarding this, so please don't take it as official (yet). If the USB key is broken or damaged, you will probably be able to get a replacement. You might have to send the damaged one back to IK.

If you lose your USB key, then that's a more difficult situation. Theoretically, you would be able to contact IK, and if you registered online then they can verify which licenses you have and send you a new hardware key. The trouble is that it's too easy for someone to take advantage of the situation and "accidentally" lose their USB key at their friend's house (who happens to have a studio, running some softsynths... you get the picture). It'd be ok if IK could somehow remotely deactivate your USB key (but imagine the conspiracy theories!). IK haven't made an announcement yet regarding how they'll handle that situation. We'll have to wait and see. Mind you, your USB key is the physical representation of the investment you've made in your software. You should treat it like it's worth the amount you paid for the software!

I can install Philharmonik both on my home computer and on my school laptop, just the same as with the current setup, correct? I just need to bring the key back and forth with me? That seems like a fine idea - just need to make sure to remember it.

Yes, that should be perfectly fine.

-Kim.

[Mr. Tunes]

so maybe i can be contstructive and add something useful to the conversation. i dont mind that there's a dongle coming up. if worse comes to worst i'll buy a hub i'm sure it's not more than 30 bucks canadian. whatever it is i dont care cause i need it anyway since im always swapping devices.

maybe one day there will be a universal dongle that you can put all your licenses on? then it surely wont be any sweat off anyone's backs. it's already starting with the steinberg dongle and iLoks with digidesign

[Beardedone]

I do mind the dongle... Very much. I don't trust them.

[dusted william]

Please don't make it as much a pain in tha ass to register as the Steinberg keys.....

so does this mean we can finally sell IK products second hand if they have the key?

dw

[baggio]

I think we need to clarify the situation regarding damaged/lost dongles as a matter of prioirty. There is a product due to be released (Miroslav) yet there does not appear to be any consistency with what happens when somehting goes wrong with these dongles.

If I am expected to buy a new licence because a dongle breaks - you may say it is unlikely but it has happened to me and it was a nightmare, then I want a refund for my pre-order. Buying a replacement dongle is one thing, buying a new licence is something else.

[Kim Lajoie]

Loophead, I understand that you don't like hardware keys. I understand you won't buy from companies that use hardware keys. That's ok. Really, it is ok. However, please don't put words in our mouths. We are hardly assuming that all our customers are criminals. There's a great deal of trust between our customers and us. The problem is that there are a great many people who will buy the software and then share it with five friends, or people who will split the cost and share the product. Unfortunately there's no way of telling who will honour the license, and who will share it with whoever. I mean, it'd be cool, but we can't exactly ask when you buy a product -

"You just want to use it for yourself? Cool - you can have the unprotected version"

"You're sharing it with your friends? Sorry, we'll have to give you a hardware key with that."

As much as I wish it did, it doesn't work like that. Some people are just dishonest.

Squids mentioned that for every one license there might be two people actually using the software. That doesn't mean we think everyone is doing multiple installs. It's average. A lot of people are honest and pay for the software they use. Other people are going to install it on their computer, and also install it on their friends' computers. Others might download it from virus-infested, porn-popup-producing, spyware-installing warez sites.

We don't think everyone is a criminal. It's just that there are enough people doing the wrong thing that they spoil it for the rest of us. Like I said, I wish this wasn't the case. I wish everyone was honest. The hardware key is not about IK saying "You are a criminal - you must be punished!". It's about making it hard enough to illegally share, so that more people are inclined to be honest. More people buy software, and that allows companies like IK to continue to create innovative and inspiring tools for us to make music.

And at risk of repeating myself, that's why we're here. Because we love making music.

-Kim.

[dusted william]

I had a Steinberg dongle that bent soooooo easily, these things are bound to break, especially if you use a laptop.

How many times during the use of the plug will it call the dongle? Can we put the dongle in to open the program, then take it out? I just don't like the idea of a dongle sticking out of a laptop.

dw

[Kim Lajoie]

so does this mean we can finally sell IK products second hand if they have the key?

Yes, that's one of the benefits of moving to a hardware key.

-Kim.

[Frunobulax]

"at the very least cuts down the friend to friend sharing..." You are flatly calling us criminals. To a man we all are thieves. Well not everyone 'shares' in this manner. Your true colors are showing quite clearly here dude. This is why I will not support you and others who feel that the solution is at the cost of the legitimate user.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You can not have it both ways. You treat us as faithful customers or you treat us as thieves. You can not do both simultaneously. If you try, you will be called on it. I have been socking away for MVP, if the USB Key had not lost me your comments certainly have.

This is not a personal attack but a defensive one. Can you not see that THIS is how YOU have just treated us ? And justification is merely that, a justification. I am no thief. I will not support those who TREAT me like one. And dude it is plain as day from your posts.

Sad f'in day.

By this logic, all copy protection treats you like a thief, including the challenge/response system that IK/SR have been using to date. Further, every store with security cameras or security officers, and every town and city and county and state and country with any kind of police force does not trust you, and treats you like a criminal.

I guess my point is that it's best not to take all this personally. I don't like the measures I have to take to keep my stuff from getting ripped off, like locking my car, the door to my home, using security codes for online transactions, etc. But trade-offs have to occur. I would prefer not to use a dongle, challenge/response, or any kind of security measure, but I understand why dev's feel compelled to use these measures. If I find the dongle to be more troublesome than the software it's protecting is worth to me, I'll stop using the software.

There's just no need here to portray anyone as evil. Sure honest users suffer some inconvenience, but we also pay higher prices in stores to cover shoplifting losses and the store's security expense. Honest people have always paid the price for the acts of dishonest people, and that will not change in the foreseeable future.

Hopefully the technology will progress enough in the future to make software protection less and less problematic.

[dusted william]

Yes, that's one of the benefits of moving to a hardware key. Smile

I certainly hope you are right, or that the policy doesn't change in a few weeks.

dw

[baggio]

Also, all this nonsense about friends sharing etc. I would think that this is a minute part of any piracy problem. It appears to me that developers have now given up on preventing pirates sharing on the net/ebay etc., which is the real problem. To paraphase an analogy about lawyers being the only people who benefit from a divorce - dongle manufacurer seem to be the only people who benefit out of piracy.

[Kim Lajoie]

I think we need to clarify the situation regarding damaged/lost dongles as a matter of prioirty. There is a product due to be released (Miroslav) yet there does not appear to be any consistency with what happens when somehting goes wrong with these dongles.

No consistency? IK haven't released any official word about how damaged/lost iKeys will be handled. I can give you an idea of what's possible given the technology and business requirements, but I'm limited in what I'm allowed to say because there hasn't been an official announcement yet.

If I am expected to buy a new licence because a dongle breaks - you may say it is unlikely but it has happened to me and it was a nightmare, then I want a refund. Buying a replacement dongle is one thing, buying a new licence is something else.

Like I said, if your USB key is damaged, then you probably only have to buy a new one. You might have to send the old (damaged) one back to IK. If your hardware key is lost, then the situation because a little more complex. I've already posted this on the matter:

If you lose your USB key, then that's a more difficult situation. Theoretically, you would be able to contact IK, and if you registered online then they can verify which licenses you have and send you a new hardware key. The trouble is that it's too easy for someone to take advantage of the situation and "accidentally" lose their USB key at their friend's house (who happens to have a studio, running some softsynths... you get the picture). It'd be ok if IK could somehow remotely deactivate your USB key (but imagine the conspiracy theories!). IK haven't made an announcement yet regarding how they'll handle that situation. We'll have to wait and see. Mind you, your USB key is the physical representation of the investment you've made in your software. You should treat it like it's worth the amount you paid for the software!

-Kim.

[Caleb]

How many times during the use of the plug will it call the dongle? Can we put the dongle in to open the program, then take it out?

Good question.
I'd like to know the answer to that too.

Caleb

[baggio]

The situation is not more complicated if the dongle is lost - that is where the trust word comes into play - ie. trust you legitmate customers. Things do get lost and asking them to pay for new licence is not right, hence why I would like clarification on this matter. Also. as Miroslav is about to be released, maybe there should be an offical statement made as a matter of priority.

[Rellik]

Remote deactivation is obviously a MUST.

Having to pay an unreasonable fee (more than the cost of the key itself) if I lose the key.. well, is not something I would "take sitting down", so to speak. Not that I could do anything... but ttoz-style rants come to mind . It's my responsibility to take care of the dongle, but the dongle is only there to protect IK/SR - and small and flimsy things get lost/broken - it's a fact of life.

I'll pay the cost of the key if I lose it or it breaks, but I wouldn't be willing to pay extra just because IK didn't/couldn't implement a remote deactivation system. What I'm buying is the software, not the dongle. Dongle issues are not my problem, and I expect not to have to deal with/pay for them.