Questions about Philharmonik

[Squids]

I am opening this thread for a civilized discussion about Philharmonik, the IKey it uses and any other questions you have about related products from SR or IK. Feel free to ask questions if you are a current or prospective user of our products. Please be patient on answers because I want to make sure I give you accurate information and some things I have to look into "the what if this or that" questions.

Please do not clog this thread up with your views about copy protection, piracy, warez etc. We all know that this is an endless debate on KVR and belongs in the "everything else" section more appropriately. It is also not useful to "vote" on whether you like that Philharmonik has an Ikey since it already DOES have the key and can't be changed at this point.

That said, it doesn't mean that you can't get Miroslav sounds unprotected as they ARE still sample libraries too (just a different price and don't have all the patches and features of the virtual instrument Philharmonik). A trade off that is up to you.

Briefly, the concept behind Philharmonik being more portected than usual is based mainly on the fact that it is a very expensive high end product that is being offered at a much lower price than it could have been (for its relative cost of development as well as value for money to the user... ie. it has a library originally worth over $4,000. plus elements of CSR, enhanced development of the ST engine and more). In order to keep the prices lower it has better protection which should hopefully allow it to be sold on the whole more accurately to the amount of users that really use it. We don't blame anyone here specifically for the issues that cause companies in our industry to have to face these decisions about copy protection but of course we all know why and who is really to blame. Not you, not us but there ARE some out there making things difficult for all of us. We can only work around it the best we can. Sometimes we just accept it. Sometimes less so as in this one particular case. You decide but let's not forget what a great product this is.

If you aren't interested in the product or you refuse to use a USB key then there isn't much you can add to this thread so please don't take away from others who want to understand more about the product or the key.

Thank you.

[baggio]

Two questions:

1) What happens when the Key gets damaged?

2) What happens when the Key gets lost?

I am not anti or pro anything, I would just like an answer to these questions, especially question 2.

[loophead]

Has the library been tuned to standard tuning. The original MV lib was a non standard has this been addressed on MVP as well as in the library itself. As for that library aside from any plugin issues (the verb et.al.) What sounds would I loose - not presets etc but sounds. Thanks.

[Squids]

Two questions:

1) What happens when the Key gets damaged?

You mean IF the key gets damaged? You send it back to IK for a replacement.

2) What happens when the Key gets lost?

I will find out what sort of official policy there is on this but I would imagine it wouldn't be that much different than a company like Steinberg who also uses this type of key. I will find out for sure this week. But, I am sure somewhere in there discretion is involved or it could easily defeat the whole purpose of its existence.

As mentioned before though, an investment of a product that had an original value of (you know) and you paid (you know) warrants some looking after. How often do we lose our car keys? Not too often. That's because we care a whole lot about the value as we would about anything that was worth hundreds or thousands of dollars (or pounds).

[Squids]

Has the library been tuned to standard tuning. The original MV lib was a non standard has this been addressed on MVP as well as in the library itself. As for that library aside from any plugin issues (the verb et.al.) What sounds would I loose - not presets etc but sounds. Thanks.

You mean lose from what was in the original Miroslav libraries? Not much. We left out the "Lite" versions which just didn't sound as good and weren't as crucial to have now as they were back when Akais and SampleCell were the main format. We DID put in all of the mono versions and even made more mono versions to act as both "lite" versions AND "mono" versions that you can use to take up less polyphony as well as ram, pan freely where you want, layer in combis etc.

There are some proprietary patches to some of the libraries that don't come over as well such as the combinations or key switching in Giga versions. But, we have plenty of our own articulation and layer combis that cover more ground. Then there are quite a few unreleased articulations, ensembles and some instruments as well.

As far as tuning goes, with orchestral instruments there can be variance in tuning even over time in a note. Sometimes that lends a warmth and richness to orchestral layers but either way we were working with whatever material he recorded. We did make tuning adjustments to standard tuning however so probably the concern there is adressed.

[Rellik]

As mentioned before though, an investment of a product that had an original value of (you know) and you paid (you know) warrants some looking after. How often do we lose our car keys? Not too often. That's because we care a whole lot about the value as we would about anything that was worth hundreds or thousands of dollars (or pounds).

The main reason people don't lose their car keys is because they keep them on their person all the time when out and about. It's perfectly common to lose your car keys within your own home, because you just set it down somewhere without thinking and then need it to go to school/work in the morning.

But I agree that losing keys shouldn't be too common - I know I'll try to keep it actually plugged into a computer as much as possible. Still, it's an important point, but this kind of thing happens to just about everybody at somepoint, with something or other - so I'm very eager to hear the answer to this question. I'll look up Steinberg's policy, in the meantime.

[Squids]

I believe Steinberg's policy is that if you break it or lose it once you get a replacement license but you have to pick up your own Steinberg Key from the store. If it happens a second time then they use discretion.

A good point was made before about taking your possessions seriously and having insurance for your equipment in case it were to get stolen. Surely you value your computer, your keyboard, your hard drives, motitors etc. So, your Philharmonik and IKey are valuable too. I have a couple USB keys and a Jump drive on a key ring I keep in my pocket (seperate of my car keys actually) or I keep it in my computer bag... I also carry around a bunch of external HDs and headphones, a Mac and PC laptop. For me it is not a problem. If it was then as a user myself I would never have thought it would be ok to do it. I am also a ProTools user and ProTools users are used to Waves, Antares, Universal Audio, McDsp and others that use Ilok. I keep my ILok key always plugged in to my ProTools system unless I am working in someone else's studio. Then I can take it with me. This kind of portability is really great for professional studio work I have to say.

[Caleb]

Yeah - the portability does sound pretty good to tell you the truth.

I think I worry about IKey because I've seen USB Memory Sticks perform in a flakey manner. With them it's not as much of a problem though because they're relatively inexpensive.

I think I'm more worried that if my IKey becomes damaged that I may need to shell out more money for the library itself at some stage - eg two break.

I don't care about paying the $30 replacement cost or whatever it is for a new IKey, I just don't want to be in a position where I pay twice for the library.

If I become a pro user I might think about a dual licence so that I don't lose any time waiting for a replacement key - but those days are far away.

Squids - I asked a question in the other thread about PCI Bus performance while using the USB Key.

I was always told in Scope forums that the Scope cards required alot of PCI Bus bandwidth to operate effectively especially when using things like Reverbs as it needs to shuffle alot of information backward and forward to the CPU - a limitation in design.

It was also told to me that USB devices have a tendency to take up quite a bit of the PCI Bus bandwidth when in operation which is one of the reasons I decided to avoid USB devices wherever possible on my music computer.

I don't know if you are aware of any figures, performance tests etc.. with PCI Bus in mind on these IKeys, but I thought I would ask just in case.

If it was a once off use while starting up Philharmonik that would be one thing, but if the IKey needs to remain in the computer at all times while using Philharmonik that is a different story.

If it requires to be in all the time, then it must be performing periodic communication to/from the application.

Which, I guess, brings me to the clarification.....can you clarify that the IKey needs to be inserted for the duration of the time you are using Philharmonik or can you remove after it has loaded up and verified itself?

Caleb

[Squids]

The Ikey does have to be in the computer when you are using it just like the Steinberg key.

I will look into the PCI bus question. I don't think it would be a problem because I haven't noticed anything changing with my PCI bus systems. But, I will try to find a more accurate answer for you.

I should have the other answer you guys are waiting for soon. I have some preliminary info that looks to be good but I want to wait to confirm everything before I say it. Either way, I am sure like most cases there is discretion involved and that means that esoundz customers (particularly ones we know and trust) I would bend over backwards for... meaning that we'd find a way to make sure you were happy. There are lots of ways we can do that too. We know it is important to look out for our customers and follow any issues they may have closely to make sure it is solved. That's part of what we do that keeps the site around really. We won't let you down. None of our customers are the type to really try to take advantage anyway and are very respectful and appreciative on the whole. We take good care of them in the proper way.

By the way, owning Miroslav Philharmonik will also qualify you for future crossgrades to the sample libraries in various formats. I may even make it a cheap option for Philharmonik owners to add on the entire Akai orchestral library for example. We'll do all sorts of things as we usually tend to. Some may cost money, some will be for free but added value after your purchase is something you can come to expect from us besides strong customer support.

[Caleb]

I have no doubts about you trying bending over backwards for loyal customers Squids.

I will also post a question about IKEY on the Creamware forums I go to occasionally and see if there is any feedback.

Alot of people who use the full-on Scope systems are pretty high-end users so I have no doubt that some will also be using software like Cubase with an IKEY already.

I'm not backing down from my pre-purchase unless the news is particularly grim and I doubt it's that. I just may need to plan my system more carefully around any known issues.

Thanks for your help.

Caleb

[AndrewSimon]

Simple PCI Bus test.
Try this.
Set your latency on the sound card as low as you can,
mine is on 1.9ms , now use the dongle and see if things start to crackle.

Low latency is very important to me since I play live.
I also use PCI dsp cards that tripple your latency.
1.9ms + 1.9ms fx send + 1.9ms fx return = 5.7ms

So if my starting point is 3.7ms then things start to add up quickly.

[harmony gardens]

By the way, owning Miroslav Philharmonik will also qualify you for future crossgrades to the sample libraries in various formats. I may even make it a cheap option for Philharmonik owners to add on the entire Akai orchestral library for example. We'll do all sorts of things as we usually tend to. Some may cost money, some will be for free but added value after your purchase is something you can come to expect from us besides strong customer support.

I have absolutely no doubt you will Squids. I think it must be your expirience with hurricanes that helps you keep your cool under fire.

[telebunke]

It was also told to me that USB devices have a tendency to take up quite a bit of the PCI Bus bandwidth when in operation which is one of the reasons I decided to avoid USB devices wherever possible on my music computer.Caleb

I am a Cubase user, so I do use Steinberg's USB key. Beginning of this year I added 2 UAD-1 cards to my system and called up my audio PC dealer.
He told me that there is no problem at all for the UAD-1 card to even share the same IRQ with USB, if all you are using is USB dongles, because the USB dongles don't cause much data traffic.
Other USB devices, like USB audio devices will cause traffic. Sure they will, if they need to stream audio channels in and out. But the Ikey doesn't need much data to say "I'm here". Hope that helps a little.

tele

[Caleb]

Yeah - the limited responses I'm getting from Scope users at the moment indicates that there isn't much to worry about.

By the way - I've heard that having a mouse and a USB Dongle on a hub together is not necessarily a good idea. According to one user the mouse would temporarily stop functioning whenever the key/application handshake occurred.

Don't know if that's a universal occurrence, but it might be handy to not have the mouse and the IKEY on the same hub if you're using one - or at least try separating them if you're experiencing problems with mouse operation.

Caleb

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]