Questions about Philharmonik

[Squids]

NI's registration is pretty cool. You get the key and SN sent to your email. If you wipe the hard drive, you just copy and paste the Key to activate the sw.

Why not use this method?

Trust me, NI is not without their registration issues either. No system is perfect and if it was then everyone would eventually want to use it I would think.

This is the system that was chosen. It happens to be the same system as one of the most popular sequencers ever, Cubase (inventors of VST... this whole place used to be called KVR-VST.com ) and there are other companies who are also going to be supporting this key so you can put everything all onto one key. It's not a bad system. If it was then no one would choose to use it! This was looked into deeply and tested to see if it would work well for protecting the plug-in and the sounds. Apart from some fear and complaints on the forums I think it will serve the product well and most people will be just fine with it. Remember, I am a user myself. If I felt like it was unacceptable or too much of a pain I would never have been supportive of it. But, I really think that it is better that it is protected more heavily than it being twice the price to compensate.

Again though, to understand my point of view on it fully I will repeat that Sonic Reality is a sound developer. If you like NI stuff then you'll be happy to know that we make sounds for Kontakt and Battery as well. You can even import Miroslav Akai libraries into Kontakt with no copy protection at all if you want. 99% of our products have ZERO copy protection and we just hope, pray and blindly trust so that people can have the sounds and the flexibility they want. Only in a special case such as a really high value product like this are we considering the best protection we could find. It was either Ilok or Syncrosoft. Either of the two would work okay for me as I am used to using them anyway with Cubase and ProTools. I know that people on the forums use all kinds of stuff and that's cool. But, most people use Cubase, ProTools, Logic, Sonar or DP. There are a good amount of people who also use Tracktion, Live, FL, Energy and some others (I use Chainer a lot just for playing quickly). But, for a lot of semi-pro and pro customers it isn't going to even be an issue, or certainly not one that is new to them. Some of these major host companies have had keys for years!

Okay, I don't know about you but I am getting a little tired of talking about the key. I say that if people are sure they are against keys then just don't get the product. Simple. Nothing is going to change about it at this point. Maybe the route would be to get the library versions instead or to get someting else. However, if people here understand why there is one and still appreciate what that key unlocks for your music making then let's start talking about some of the many other things about Philharmonik that are more exciting.

[harmony gardens]

Okay, I don't know about you but I am getting a little tired of talking about the key. I say that if people are sure they are against keys then just don't get the product. Simple. Nothing is going to change about it at this point. Maybe the route would be to get the library versions instead or to get someting else. However, if people here understand why there is one and still appreciate what that key unlocks for your music making then let's start talking about some of the many other things about Philharmonik that are more exciting.

I totally agree!! I have listened to the demo's, read all about it, read the thoughts of everyone who has the original sets, read the sound list, and I want Philharmonik!! I've taken into account my expirience with eSoundz, my faith in the company, and I'm not going to let the dongle creep me out. I absolutely know that if I have a problem, they won't leave me hanging.

I don't know what more Squids can offer if you're in doubt, you can get a refund, you can get a crossgrade to other formats, you get the full faith support of esoundz, if you buy from them, and if you aren't happy, you can sell it. It's also dirt cheap for what you get.

I actually feel a little bad that it was my question that started that whole nasty thread. To those who would tar and feather squids for the decision, let's not forget all the great tools we have. I can say that Squids has earned my trust and respect, and I owe it to him to stand up and say so. The company has been there for me, and has addressed any issue I've had fairly. Regardless of what you think of a dongle, eSoundz is a great company!!!

[nexussynth]

Well squids, if you say it won't affect performance, then that's all I'm concerned with. I don't ever use a laptop for music so I don't care about mechanical reliability issues.

This will be my first USB dongle (SONAR user ).

I also would say that to not get this Philharmonik because of the key is truly cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

My only concerns are the performance hit (if any) as I said and if it's going to cost me to replace it if the failure is an internal failure not from mechanical damage. I used to work in the chip industry in QC and modern ICs can fail for no apparent reason. Especially the EEprom2 type of chip that dongles use (we used to make those).

Of course I can't see such a failure TWICE. This technology is quite reliable now.

I am willing to take a chance on all that because I truly think that IK/SR will support this product including CP key issues.

Now all that remains is for me to get it into my hot hands...



P.S: A thankyou to squids for putting up with the barrage of questions and attacks and remaining cool enough to answer them all. I hope this forum can get back to the 'fun' questions concerning the musical aspects of Philharmonik!

[telebunke]

... my expirience with eSoundz, my faith in the company,

They do have good service, don't they? And they care for the details to go right and are just helpfull.
That combined with good quality products is what we like about SR.

tele

[Squids]

Well, thank you for the support and kind comments. We like to keep this place friendly and productive. I know there's some opposition to the key. It's not that I love keys myself or any copy protection for that matter. But, keys have become a certain part of some of the high end products and I am already used to it. I like the portability of it.

The IKey seems very reliable to me as does the Steinberg Key. But, as with anything you own it must be treated with care. I must admit I have a lot of computers (hey, we are developers). I have mac and pc desktops and laptops. I had them all going when working on Philharmonik and like I said the performance was actually BETTER than SampleTank 2 when running effects. Of course, that's mostly because Philharmonik can do send fx using up just one reverb instead of several discretely per part. But, anyway, nothing any different than normal otherwise. I'd be bummed too if there was some big hit on the CPU. Luckily there isn't! Theories, rumors, myths... okay, but you know when you have it in your hands you'll see that it is just really great!

[Mr. Tunes]

i think that in a few years from now that whole library will fit on something the size of a key and you'll be able to play your samples off of that drive. and then the whole receptor type market will grow and you'll be able to pop these keys into hardware keyboards and have huge libraries on your keyring. visions!

[brianbrian]

Regarding the MP3 demos here:

http://www.philharmonik.com/Main.html?prod_MP

Are these using the CSR? Also, is the special built-in version of CSR going to be the hall algorithm, or something else?

[Caleb]

I certainly know some people who have entire porn collections on a USB key already. Eventually they'll be able to put movies as well as pictures on there

Caleb

[telebunke]

i think that in a few years from now that whole library will fit on something the size of a key and you'll be able to play your samples off of that drive. and then the whole receptor type market will grow and you'll be able to pop these keys into hardware keyboards and have huge libraries on your keyring. visions!

The key would include a supersonic&superfast DSP chip, of course. It can be used in a sequencer's instrument rack, like we're used to, but it'll have all the sounds and the software and the dsp chip on board - then we'll be back to the times of Proteus2000&friends, but as a "plug in the key" version.
Only downpoint: It's hard to call up 2 instances.
tele

[Squids]

Regarding the MP3 demos here:

http://www.philharmonik.com/Main.html?prod_MP

Are these using the CSR? Also, is the special built-in version of CSR going to be the hall algorithm, or something else?

They are using the CSR.

The CSR effect in Philharmonik is very deep technically but in terms of control it is very simple. You have level and time. It was designed to react like the original Dvorak Symphony Hall. Underneath the hood there are deep tweaks done by the same engineers who made TRackS sound as great as it does so it would work best with this material. Naturally, if someone wants to get into the "matrix" (literally) of CSR and program complex remodeling of acoustic spaces then they'll want to get the full CSR plug-in when it is out. It has an "easy" mode and an "advanced" mode and the advanced mode is DEEEEEEEEEEEP. It even has a modulation matrix. You can probably use it to create some wicked effects that are unconventional and great for ambient music or avant garge styles. But, anyway, back to questions about Philharmonik!

[harmony gardens]

Squids, can you tell us a little more about the pipe organ sounds in Philharmonik?? Are these samples from the Organ in the Dvorak Hall??

[Squids]

Squids, can you tell us a little more about the pipe organ sounds in Philharmonik?? Are these samples from the Organ in the Dvorak Hall??

No, there are some samples of that organ though but they are in a state that will take a while to create multisamples to play (ie. raw sessions). But, the one on Philharmonik was recorded in a similar size hall and is majestic. Fits in nicely. We threw a few instruments in as extras really for now. This was one and the other is the classical guitar. I have to be honest with you that the classical guitar is nice to have but by no means the best classical guitar you ever heard. It's alright. I wish it was better but then it is an extra so... better to have it than not. The pipe organ however is stellar and I also can't wait to hear the Dvorak organ when it's done too. As I said, there is many more Miroslav material yet to come for the future. Perhaps Philharmonik will be expandable. Just kidding. No official word on that right now. But, I can tell you that we will be releasing more Miroslav material in the future (and Philharmonik and ST2 owners WILL benefit) since have acquired all the rights to it and intend to bring it to the world the best we can.

[funkynuts]

i think that in a few years from now that whole library will fit on something the size of a key and you'll be able to play your samples off of that drive. and then the whole receptor type market will grow and you'll be able to pop these keys into hardware keyboards and have huge libraries on your keyring. visions!

sign me up now!

[mike85021]

Squids, I think it would be a gesture of good faith to make sure all MPO sites clearly state the type of protection the product will be using.

Here in the KVR instrument listing it still states that the method of protection is Challenge/Response.

Neither the eSoundz nor IK Multimedia sites representing MPO say one word about the type of protection it will be using.

EDIT: The key is now mentioned on the eSoundz site, but not on the IK Multimedia site. I would have liked to have known when the pre-sale promo was announced.

Intentional or not, that seems rather sly. I only discovered about the dongle here in the forum, and in my case, that was the deciding factor.

Full disclosure where it really counts would seem the honorable thing to do.

Thanks, and best of luck.

[z15]

getting back to the key (sorry) for one more time:

as far as i understand, the steinberg key stands out from lots of other dongles in the way that cubase sx3 accesses the key really frequently, as if lots of the code was either decrypted on that key, fetched from its memory or something like that. it made the crackers' lives much harder and i know that other dongles like ilok and xskey have (unfortunately) been supposedly compromised much faster and with less work.

this and the suspected resulting performance decrease claims should of course be taken with a grain of salt since the sources and rumours might not be reliable... but the point is that no other software besides cubase sx i know of has reported to be causing performance problems by accessing the key frequently - maybe the usual practise is periodical checks to make sure that the key is still there and is a real one, maybe fetching/decrypting a bit or two of code every now and then, whatever.

bottom line is that because of that i believe there shouldn't be any performance problems with ikey. sorry for the long rambling.