why trackers?

[lightshy]

ok...

don't know why, but i'm really getting into this tracker bizness. but before i leave live in favour of renoise (if ever) i'd like to know some things.

1. what made u choose a tracker over a conventional sequncer?
2. whate are the pros and cons of trackers in comparison to a conventional sequencer?

this is it for now.

thanks for any help,
dumi

[z15]

you don't have to leave one software to use another you know i have logic, live and renoise and do still find use for them all depending on task and mood.

i started my musicmaking with trackers way back when they were the best alternative in computer music unless you wanted to invest on hardware synths and do midi sequencing which i wasn't prepared to do since i was something like 12 back then.

i won't go on about all the strengths and weaknesses in trackers and conventional sequencers (and they do depend on WHICH piece of software you choose as much as what kind of logic the software follows)... but IMO the best thing with traditional trackers is still the fact that you can manipulate samples and loops really nicely with sample offsets, retrigs, sample reverse fx and all that. for me beat slicers like phatmatik pro and intakt seem really clumsy compared to doing the same thing with sample offsets and the fashionable "IDM" style chopping and mangling is a lot easier and more controllable with a tracker than with any seq i've tried. you can do the same things with other stuff than trackers too but it won't be that easy and convenient.

the first limiting thing with trackers that came to my mind is that the control on groove and timing feels much less "organic" due to the fact that the sequence tracks are basically lists with fixed steps instead of the more loose nature of piano roll - you can get a lot done with note delay effects and all that but it still doesn't feel freeform enough. as a result, working with a tracker feels a lot different which affects how the songs end up like a lot here.

[lion_cub]

Trackers main strength is in their step recording capabilities, whereas traditional sequencers excel in realtime recording.

[ermi]

1. what made u choose a tracker over a conventional sequncer?

I can work much faster.
Being able to use the keyboard for playing notes is great. Being able to use keyboard shortcuts for most functions also.
I don't have to move the overlapping windows here and there, so the interface stays "clean" and easy to work with.
IMHO, it's very suited for pattern-based music.

2. whate are the pros and cons of trackers in comparison to a conventional sequencer?

Trackers are basically midi sequencers, I'd say. So they are not suited for managing long audio files in a song, for recording and such...

Some sequencers (like SX3) are packed with features. You can do almost anything, that you can do with a tracker, with them. Almost, tho.
But that comes, IMHO, at the expense that they (like SX3) are slow to work with, if you're into certain styles of music.


Anyway, it's a lot of thing that could be written. It depends on what are you looking for/what would you like to do with a program.

[rpc9943]

Don't ditch your host.

check out Revisit.

It's a vsti in beta for precisely your issue

RonC

[Breakpete]

I started with trackers and now use Renoise from time to time. Renoise is going really strong nowadays and it looks like it has a great future. Probably we can expect to see ReWire functionality, better resolution (no more just a step sequencer) and better arrangement options. The developers actually let registered users of the full version vote for the most wanted features to implement in future versions.

[ross g]

you gotta understand, this 42yo music idiot who has done a variety of stuff, familiar with live music, analog, and some digital stuff has to ask: what are "trackers"?


rg

[Har]

I really enjoy using trackers like Buzz when I want to break out of the kind of rut I sometimes get into from "conventional" instrument playing and the thinking that comes with it: too many years of playing piano and keyboards can sometimes find my hands falling into predictable scales, licks, chords and shapes again and again.

I find that by using Buzz's tracker grid-style method of step-entering notes I can come up with patterns and parts that I never wouldn't naturally have thought of via my "real" keyboard playing on my MIDI keyboard....I really enjoy doing this kind of thing to create cool loops and textures that I'll often then fly into a second host (SONAR or Live) to build upon even more...as zion15 pointed out, trackers can be a great tool to use WITH other hosts.

[ermi]

you gotta understand, this 42yo music idiot who has done a variety of stuff, familiar with live music, analog, and some digital stuff has to ask: what are "trackers"?


rg

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker

Or you can also check the Renoise video tutorial:
http://tutorials.renoise.com/?n=Renoise.VideoTutorials

[soma]

2 words:
Speed.
Simplicity.

[z15]

I really enjoy using trackers like Buzz when I want to break out of the kind of rut I sometimes get into from "conventional" instrument playing and the thinking that comes with it: too many years of playing piano and keyboards can sometimes find my hands falling into predictable scales, licks, chords and shapes again and again.

that's definitely one thing i love about trackers, thanks for reminding me. way back when i used buzz as my only sequencer i did come up with a lot more inventive chord progressions and harmonies than i do now.

with a traditional piano roll-type seq it's harder for me to get the whole picture of how all the voices are interleaved and i do end up with a lot simpler and more dull progressions. and as i'm not much of a keyboard player, i have a pretty small set of shapes and progressions i eventually fall into when jamming.

with a tracker i can feel better how all the voices move in relation to each other and how the whole progression fits together and thus it's easier to experiment. that MIGHT be more a matter of having used trackers for longer than other types of sequencers so far, but i do have a feeling it's about the way the traditional tracker interface is laid out too.

[scottyp]

lets see.. You don't need a midi keyboard to use it effectively..
They run well even on a slow system...
Most of them don't have more than a few screens.
Minimal graphics..
NOT RELIANT ON MOUSECLICKS, very computer keyboard oriented
In other words, they are the best laptop music software ever...

[paulmerchant]

they are the best laptop music software ever...

You hit it on the head. I started playing with trackers because I wanted to be able to write music quickly and intuitively with nothing but a laptop. I wanted to write music on the bus, in my bed, in my office. Clicking and dragging all over the place on a piano roll or dragging a midi keyboard around wasn't an option.

I've discovered something along the way, however. There's the simplicity. I can concentrate on writing music instead of worrying about all 3,000 features of my host. With a tracker, I can set up a small virtual studio that only has the tools I need.

Renoise is great, but I think Aodix is really the bees knees. Aodix is a tracker and sequencer (with an awsome vertical scrolling piano roll) that, mercifully, comes without a million features. Aodix is built around VST so a user simply gathers the effects, synths, samplers, and mixers they want and then routes them in Aodix. For me, Aodix is much easier to learn and more stable than Buzz or Psycle.

The only downside to Aodix is that version 4 is a completely new Aodix (with the features above). It's also the first time Aodix has really been complete (and it still has some key features missing). And it's the first time it's been a commercial app. All the Aodix users are waiting for updates (v. 4.1) while ImageLine (FL Studio) has tied up the Aodix developer with the development of a sampler (perhaps there's a conspiracy in there somewhere). Because this revolutionary version of Aodix is new and the developer is distracted, there's not much of a following yet. Hopefully the developer will be able to focus on Aodix because it holds promise. It's almost my dream host (all it needs are vertical scrolling integrated audio tracks!).

[z15]

buzz is an unfinished piece of crap, albeit a very lovely one at that. i did use it for a few years and grew quite fond of it but it also almost destroyed my hearing since i got all sorts of weird noise bursts out of some generators/fx that were buggy. didn't feel too bad to stop using it after i'd learned to use logic better.

i chose renoise as my current tracker because it's the only one that's w32/osx cross platform (although that only became a requirement later) and it's the one that feels most like fast tracker 2 that was my first music composition software i used for years. it's a good piece of software but i can imagine there are other really good alternatives like aodix and skale.

[ahmed_vst]

I don't have to move the overlapping windows here and there, so the interface stays "clean" and easy to work with.

But the overlapping windows are just softsynth 3rd party plugins and effects, don't you use them?