KVR Audio

Ian B · Post by **Ian B** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:29 am

Hi All,
I decided to replace the single coil pickups on my Tele copy, with a set of Vintage Noiseless Fender replacements

The new neck pickup went in without a hitch, and is just fine, but the new bridge pickup is causing all manner of grief. In a nutshell, it sounds like it isn't earthed (constant loud hum) and there is little to no output

Just to make sure the pickup wasn't faulty, I swapped the wiring over, neck > bridge connections, and vice versa. Whichever is connected to the bridge position, gives this f#cking annoying hum/low output. I put the original pickups back to see if everything was still ok, everything worked as it should.
I assumed (wrongly?) that changing single coil for single coil, would just be a matter of changing like for like. I've changed humbuckers before with no trouble, but this has got me well

Is it likely I'll need to get a set of Fender pot's and selecter switch as well? It seems like using the original selector switch/volme/tone pots is the culprit, but I can't figure out why.

I've got the Noiseless neck pickup fitted at the moment, and it's great

I wanna be able to fit and use the bridge pickup as well, but can't and I don't know whats wrong

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:35 pm

Hi Ian, right up my alley,

I assume the single coil on has two leads correct? (some have more due to coil taps)

The tele copy, is it a standard tele or like a custom (does it have one or two volume pots)?

It would seem unlikely if it has one volume and one tone pot, but you could have issues with the three way switch, that's what it sounds like to me. 3 way switch's a
re pretty straigh forward, and the tele style is no exception, but it is possible for someone to short it out with solder accidently, either by over heating the contact and melting the connection point or a little piece of solder falling dripping in. It is also possible that you're crossing the wires. A switch is a switch, is a switch, if it worked fine before and now you have problem something happened in the installation. Perhaps if you haven't already, you can put the original in and see if it now does it.

Again I really doubt it's a pot if you have one volume pot and one tone pot, because really they are master controls.

A couple more suggestions, make sure the place you're earthing to is solid, make sure that you're not mistaking hot for cold due to color of the leads (some pickups do actually use the black as hot

). Make sure you dont have you guitar near yo pc monitor, a tv that is on, a dimmer ect...(I doubt that's it, but back in the 80's my father and me were bothing going crazy when I built a pre-amp and put it in my tele and it was making excessive noise, with both looked at the dimmer switch on the wall after getting the multi meter out and everything and went

). Also I will suggest you take this time to get yoursef some copper sheilding tape and cover the inside of your electronic cavity...I doubt this will solve the problem but most guitars are not sheiled this way, the roll of tape is cheap and it's always a good idea. But when you do make sure the the sheilding on the pack of the cavity makes cnnection with a pice of the tape.

Lastly if you want you can email a small sample of the noise and often I can determine by frequency where it is coming from...either way feel free to email me with any questions, pictures ect..anything I can do to help..

EDIT: if it were only the one pick-up doing it I would say it's the coilwindings having a short, but just to make sure no matter which pick-up you hook up to that connection point on the switch causes this correct?

ew · Post by ew » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:30 pm

I'll agree with Hink here- partially. I think the thing you'll find is a sloppy solder connection on the NECK pickup's ground that's shorting out one or more of the bridge pickup's poles on the switch, thereby cancelling any hum reduction and throwing the output out of phase when the bridge pickup's selected.
ew

Ian B · Post by **Ian B** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:58 pm

Hink wrote:Hi Ian, right up my alley,

Hi Hink,
Good

I assume the single coil on has two leads correct? (some have more due to coil taps)

Two leads, black and yellow/black and white on the original pickups. Black and yellow for both the new ones.

The tele copy, is it a standard tele or like a custom (does it have one or two volume pots)?

It's a tele style guitar, rather than a out and out copy. A Harley Benton HBT2000, neck thru body, single volume/tone pot, three way selector, etc, etc. It was only a cheapish guitar, but for the money, it plays superbly well, good enough to warrant a bit of extra money replacing the original pickups.

It would seem unlikely if it has one volume and one tone pot, but you could have issues with the three way switch, that's what it sounds like to me. 3 way switch's a
re pretty straigh forward, and the tele style is no exception, but it is possible for someone to short it out with solder accidently, either by over heating the contact and melting the connection point or a little piece of solder falling dripping in. It is also possible that you're crossing the wires. A switch is a switch, is a switch, if it worked fine before and now you have problem something happened in the installation.

I rather fancy it's the three way switch. The installation instructions with the new pickups, show a slightly different connection layout on the three way selector, to the old pickups.

Perhaps if you haven't already, you can put the original in and see if it now does it.

I've just replaced the old pickups and everything is fine, except for the infamous single coil hum (the reason I got new ones)

Again I really doubt it's a pot if you have one volume pot and one tone pot, because really they are master controls.

My thoughts exactly, I've replaced humbuckers in the past with no trouble.....but these

A couple more suggestions, make sure the place you're earthing to is solid, make sure that you're not mistaking hot for cold due to color of the leads (some pickups do actually use the black as hot ). Make sure you dont have you guitar near yo pc monitor, a tv that is on, a dimmer ect...(I doubt that's it, but back in the 80's my father and me were bothing going crazy when I built a pre-amp and put it in my tele and it was making excessive noise, with both looked at the dimmer switch on the wall after getting the multi meter out and everything and went ). Also I will suggest you take this time to get yoursef some copper sheilding tape and cover the inside of your electronic cavity...I doubt this will solve the problem but most guitars are not sheiled this way, the roll of tape is cheap and it's always a good idea. But when you do make sure the the sheilding on the pack of the cavity makes cnnection with a pice of the tape.

A good suggestion about the copper shielding tape, I'll get some asap.

Lastly if you want you can email a small sample of the noise and often I can determine by frequency where it is coming from...either way feel free to email me with any questions, pictures ect..anything I can do to help..

You already know the sound, that horrible single coil hum, but amplified X5

EDIT: if it were only the one pick-up doing it I would say it's the coilwindings having a short, but just to make sure no matter which pick-up you hook up to that connection point on the switch causes this correct?

I've tried the 'offending' bridge pick up connected to the neck terminals with no excess noise problems, so it's definitely not the pickup that's at fault.

Thanks ew,
I'll have another go when I'm in a better mood

geoffrey · Post by **geoffrey** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:26 pm

Copper shielding tape is good, but a PITA to put in right. I would go with the copper paint, much easier and as good or better as the tape. Just my 2 cents worth...
G.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:53 pm

Congrats, those Vintage Noiseless PUs are great !
I got them in several guitars, they sound fantastic live and recorded and are as quiet as you will ever get.

BUT ... I recently fixed a Strat where somebody had fitted Vintage Noiseless PUs and the controls weren't working correctly. By comparing the included schematic (which I normally never use) to the actual circuit I noticed that THE INCLUDED SCHEMATIC IS WRONG, at least with the Strat set. They forgot to ground the free lug of the volume pot .
Beginner's error, if you ask me.
Don't know about the Tele set, though.
Doublecheck your wiring with the correct circuit given here :
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/su ... 6tele.html
You can find all kinds of pickup wirings here :
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/su ... tics.shtml
Also, I myself like the sound of VNs better with the stock wiring (250 K pots etc.) than with the included higher resistance pots. YMMV.

Hope that helps,
susiwong

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:52 am

Hinks advise sounds about right, but... coil taps on a single coil pick up?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:11 am

PT wrote:Hinks advise sounds about right, but... coil taps on a single coil pick up?

well not really a coil tap as usually thought but duncan has some (or they did) that instead of cutting a humbucker to a single coil they tapped it to cut down on the windings on some of the hotter pick-ups to cool them to stock stats....

Copper shielding tape is good, but a PITA to put in right. I would go with the copper paint, much easier and as good or better as the tape. Just my 2 cents worth...

it's not that big a pain really, overlapping each piece is wise...copper paint...hmmm...never thought of that, but my first thought is that being paint it would add chemicals that may dilute the copper content if you will...personally I have never seen copper paint but have used the tape often...but I would be suspect of the paint...

meeks · Post by **meeks** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:25 am

I'm sorry, I'm not getting this..the copper is shielding from outside interference? Why copper, just to satisfy my own curiosity?

And why were on the subject: any wiring diagrams of a single coil neck and humbucker bridge (I was going to buy a nashville tele because that voice in my head insisted that I become a chicken picker, but I decided just to install a single coil) I've had that routed out for a humbucker for years and figure its the easiest route, to install a single in that position, for that sound.

For that matter anyone recomend a single coil?

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:35 am

I'm sorry, I'm not getting this..the copper is shielding from outside interference? Why copper, just to satisfy my own curiosity?

can you think of something better?

http://www.warmoth.com/supplies/supplie ... _shielding

geoffrey · Post by **geoffrey** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:39 am

My guitar tech recommended it over the tape. I will find out where he bought it. But, it is not just regular paint. It is made specifically for guitars. It seems to me that he told me this was Fender or maybe Gretsch standard procedure in the olden days. (50's) Confirmation anyone?

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:42 am

I have a mid-60's Gretch and it has no shielding at all. It was one of their cheaper models so that may be why.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:52 am

geoffrey wrote:My guitar tech recommended it over the tape. I will find out where he bought it. But, it is not just regular paint. It is made specifically for guitars. It seems to me that he told me this was Fender or maybe Gretsch standard procedure in the olden days. (50's) Confirmation anyone?

yes please I would be interested to hear about it, I guess the paint would utilize copper flakes or chips...one would wonder if that would be cohesive enough (the chips to one another)...but at the same time does it have to be cohesive to accomplish it's task? I mean if you made a giant bird cage out of copper and set it on top of a mountain during a thunder storm you would safe inside as long as you weren't touching the cage...I wonder if the same principle would apply?

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:57 am

Hink wrote:
geoffrey wrote:My guitar tech recommended it over the tape. I will find out where he bought it. But, it is not just regular paint. It is made specifically for guitars. It seems to me that he told me this was Fender or maybe Gretsch standard procedure in the olden days. (50's) Confirmation anyone?
yes please I would be interested to hear about it, I guess the paint would utilize copper flakes or chips...one would wonder if that would be cohesive enough (the chips to one another)...but at the same time does it have to be cohesive to accomplish it's task? I mean if you made a giant bird cage out of copper and set it on top of a mountain during a thunder storm you would safe inside as long as you weren't touching the cage...I wonder if the same principle would apply?

The difference might be that with the cage every part of the wire is still connected to the entire cage and forms a complete circuit.
With particles in a solution (like paint) sme particles may not be in contact with others.

But it might still work.

meeks · Post by **meeks** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:57 am

Hink wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not getting this..the copper is shielding from outside interference? Why copper, just to satisfy my own curiosity?
can you think of something better?

http://www.warmoth.com/supplies/supplie ... _shielding

Lead or why not Aluminum? You'll have to excuse me on this, its the first I'm hearing of this. Is there really that much interference out there? Is it going out or coming in or both?...I'm asking because I got guitar rig last week and the brief time that I've got to play on it at the new house, the moniter seemed to interfer, so I'm rather excited about this concept.

Do you just cover the back plate or what?

Guitar pickup replacement problem (solved)