having also used both i have to disagree with that (but then you knew i would) ...jens wrote:4. the workflow is much smoother than Tracktion's
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robGood host for audio tracks?
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
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Distorted_Mastermind Distorted_Mastermind https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62388
- KVRist
- 391 posts since 22 Mar, 2005 from Kansas City, KS
I actually thought Audio Studio was easier at first, but probably because it was what I was used to. I used it for a few years because I couldn't find anything better or easier in my budget.
Tracktion was certainly in my budget since I got it on the free promo. The interface is a bit different than I was used to, but once I started recording in it on a regular basis I no longer felt the need to try something more expensive.
Now they both have features I like that the other doesn't have, but the CD burning is the only thing I use Audio Studio for anymore.
They've beefed up both Audio Studio and Midi Studio since I bought mine. I might have to check them out for old times sake (the fact that they are cheap doesn't hurt either).
Tracktion was certainly in my budget since I got it on the free promo. The interface is a bit different than I was used to, but once I started recording in it on a regular basis I no longer felt the need to try something more expensive.
Now they both have features I like that the other doesn't have, but the CD burning is the only thing I use Audio Studio for anymore.
They've beefed up both Audio Studio and Midi Studio since I bought mine. I might have to check them out for old times sake (the fact that they are cheap doesn't hurt either).
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
-Richard M. Nixon
www.myspace.com/pmf
-Richard M. Nixon
www.myspace.com/pmf
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- KVRAF
- 25037 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
I knew you would - just as you probably knew I wouldn't let the chance pass to badmouth TpHz wrote:having also used both i have to disagree with that (but then you knew i would) ...jens wrote:4. the workflow is much smoother than Tracktion's
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- KVRAF
- 25037 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
I don't know which version the last was that you used but one important workflow improvement was when they implemented the option to keep the object editor permanently open - and the typical place to put it is exactly where Tracktion has got its object-editor...Distorted_Mastermind wrote: They've beefed up both Audio Studio and Midi Studio since I bought mine. I might have to check them out for old times sake (the fact that they are cheap doesn't hurt either).
- don't tell me Jules didn't model Tracktion after Samplitude...
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Yes, but the problem is that you know "just enough" about certain things to give your voice the weight of apparent authority, and other people might not realize that you're talking out of your ass and from the perspective of some sort of unfathomable vendetta (what happened? Did Jules not implement your pet features and now you have a grudge?) when it comes to Tracktion. Frankly, your opinion on Tracktion has become worthless now, but other people don't realize that.jens wrote:I knew you would - just as you probably knew I wouldn't let the chance pass to badmouth T
Nothing personal, of course... I still think you're a heck of a guy... but when it comes to your opinions on Tracktion these days, it's like you go out of your way to overstate things. Modeled on Samplitude? Who knows? I don't.... Is Logic modeled after Cubase? Are they both modeled after Pro Tools? Who knows? Who cares? The workflow of Tracktion is exceedingly smooth and easy, and there's no way in hell you can convince me that any of your personal favourites (eXT...) have smoother interfaces for audio work. It's just that you personally are more accustomed to them. Hardly an objective perspective for a newbie who wants to do primarily audio recording.
Unfortunately, I'm not the one you're trying to convince. Rather, you're trying to convince people who don't know any better and don't realize that you're just speaking from a heavily biased personal perspective.
Forgive me for being blunt-- I'm just pretending you're a troll.
Greg
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
AFAIR way back jules actually said he modelled tracktion after some video application or other ...
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- KVRAF
- 25037 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
that would be Lightwave - he was one of its developers afaik...pHz wrote:AFAIR way back jules actually said he modelled tracktion after some video application or other ...
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nuisance sonore nuisance sonore https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=40314
- KVRian
- 1088 posts since 11 Sep, 2004 from 45° 31' 60N 73° 28' 60W
pHz wrote:AFAIR way back jules actually said he modelled tracktion after some video application or other ...
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I would venture as to guess: Vegas. The GUI doesn't look anyhting like it, of course, but the workflow is very similar, especially when you get down to timeline and clips operations.
(edit)
I never would have guessed, I don't see much similarity between the two, apart from the non Window like GUI.jens wrote: that would be Lightwave - he was one of its developers afaik...
Quote of the day: "If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names."--Elbert Hubbard 1856-1915
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- KVRAF
- 25037 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
Lunch Money wrote:Yes, but the problem is that you know "just enough" about certain things to give your voice the weight of apparent authority, and other people might not realize that you're talking out of your ass and from the perspective of some sort of unfathomable vendetta (what happened? Did Jules not implement your pet features and now you have a grudge?) when it comes to Tracktion. Frankly, your opinion on Tracktion has become worthless now, but other people don't realize that.jens wrote:I knew you would - just as you probably knew I wouldn't let the chance pass to badmouth T
Nothing personal, of course... I still think you're a heck of a guy... but when it comes to your opinions on Tracktion these days, it's like you go out of your way to overstate things. Modeled on Samplitude? Who knows? I don't.... Is Logic modeled after Cubase? Are they both modeled after Pro Tools? Who knows? Who cares? The workflow of Tracktion is exceedingly smooth and easy, and there's no way in hell you can convince me that any of your personal favourites (eXT...) have smoother interfaces for audio work. It's just that you personally are more accustomed to them. Hardly an objective perspective for a newbie who wants to do primarily audio recording.
Unfortunately, I'm not the one you're trying to convince. Rather, you're trying to convince people who don't know any better and don't realize that you're just speaking from a heavily biased personal perspective.
Forgive me for being blunt-- I'm just pretending you're a troll.
Greg
Greg sorry, but you are talking completely out of your ass here - it's really a simple thing:
I hate Tracktion - it hate it because it's a brilliant idea but many many important workflow features are implemented in a completely piss-poor way and Jules is rarely changing anything about this - development almost came to a halt about one and a half years ago - I dunno what Jules is spending his time with but it doesn't seem as if it is Tracktion...
I don't want to come across as arrogant or something but if people are unsure about wether I know what I am talking about or not they just need to download a few of the many tracks I did with Tracktion - now read from my lips:
Being an honest person I can NOT recommend Tracktion to anyone nowadays. Imo it is just not professional enough regarding workflow. You get your stuff done but it tends to make your hair grey.
EXT still has no PDC no support for odd time-signatures and tempo-changes but it is a joy to work with.
A joy because of a full-size midi-editor, a joy because of the octave-buttons in this editor and a joy because you don't have to constantly switch tools in this editor, ajoy because of collapsable tracks, a joy because of folder tracks, because of ghost-clips, because of mutable notes&clips, because of marker-tracks, because of the great sampler that is part of it, because of toggable relative&absolute snap, a joy because of thoughtful implemented freezing & rendering, a joy because of so many other things...
- and you know what? - it's still getting better every day!
don't believe in conspiracy - it's really simple:
- I spent hundreds of hours with Tracktion and thus I learned to hate it
- I spent hundreds of hours with eXT and thus I love it
I know the truth hurts sometimes...
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
For Audio... tracktion is just as dead easy as it gets. You can arrange in a manner that is exceptionally fast. Sure it doesn't have folder tracks, automation clips, and some would argue the send system that's intuitive... however, it's not the end of the world. It still just wonderful with audio (and the midi isn't as bad as people make it out to be either). You can apply FX to audio clips, has great clip slicing, slipping, sliding, and vol fades per clip... you can easily repitch clips based on octave/cents and swapping effects around is a no brainer. Automation is simple yet effective. If you don't need all the bells and whistles, it's just fantastic... (although many hosts can't even do that effeciently). Tracktion is powerful in it's simplicity... a beautiful thing I tell ya! (tho not everyone's cup of tea tho ).
).ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRAF
- 25037 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia
I'd never deny that but there's more to a good sequencer than that...ModuLR wrote: It still just wonderful with audio (and the midi isn't as bad as people make it out to be either). You can apply FX to audio clips, has great clip slicing, slipping, sliding, and vol fades per clip...
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- KVRAF
- 3745 posts since 29 Sep, 2002 from Killafornia
From the author of the threadjens wrote:I'd never deny that but there's more to a good sequencer than that...ModuLR wrote: It still just wonderful with audio (and the midi isn't as bad as people make it out to be either). You can apply FX to audio clips, has great clip slicing, slipping, sliding, and vol fades per clip...
"I´m looking for a good host to be used mainly for mixing audio tracks in a pc. "
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
So its still useless then?jens wrote: EXT still has no PDC no support for odd time-signatures and tempo-changes
I wonder what Jorgen has been working on all these months then, if he still hasn't implemented these rather fundamental features..
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Jens,
That was my point entirely, though-- YOU learned to "hate" Tracktion. That's entirely your own personal universe and 'problem' (not a true problem because your solution was to switch sequencers, which is fine!). There are thousands of other people who have found Tracktion to be a joy.
eXT turns my hair gray. I hate saying bad things about it because I love Jorgen's positivity and work ethic, but I absolutely hate using it as a sequencer still. How anyone can get a proper track done with it is still beyond me. That's a personal opinion and only in my wee little slice of the universe.
Consequently, I do NOT dismiss eXT and do NOT refrain from recommending it. I, unlike you, realize that my lack of affinity for the program is not necessarily going to translate as someone else's lack of affinity for it. A track created in Tracktion is a dream to me. It's even easier than using an 8-track tape machine, but infinitely more powerful. A track created in eXT is so far a living nightmare. I keep my eyes on the forum though because with all Jorgen's hard work, one day I'm hoping that he finally implements a usable workflow.
You hate Tracktion's workflow but love eXT's. That's really all the information I need to know that you have no real business recommending ANY sequencer to a newbie who is interested in working with AUDIO. A better option is to let the newbie demo everything possible for himself (certain programs don't offer a demo anymore, which is unfortunate).
Who knows? By some miracle, he might find eXT more accessible.
eXT's shortcomings in the audio and even merely the danged SETUP phase are far too significant for me to even consider it for even my wee little hobbyist meanderings. I've used Cubase and Plasma, and I own eXT. I have also demoed other products, but I am by no means an expert at all. But nor am I completely unaware of other people's needs in a sequencer. Rather than speak from my personal dislikes, I try my best to listen to the actual needs of the poster. In this case, I would easily recommend Tracktion. A friend of mine recently bought an interface that came with Cubase LE (or whatever the cut-down version was). I didn't go out of my way to recommend T, either, saying, "Well you have a free sequencer already! Try it out and see if you like it!" It's all about understanding the needs of the "client", not only expressing personal dislikes. Personal perspectives can, will, and SHOULD influence the stance you take; however, they should not eclipse the basic needs of the person requesting options.
So, no, there's no "truth" in what you say that "hurts". I still think you're full of shit.
As for development-- OK, so you're a cutting-edge-development whore. You get a boner for the fact that there's a new release of eXT weekly if not daily (often buggy, but I won't hold that against Jorgen who is a true prince among men). T no longer exhibits this behaviour in the public forum. As a beta-tester, I can assure you that development is continuous, daily, and current. Stopped a year and a half ago? That's just ridiculous and false.
Greg
That was my point entirely, though-- YOU learned to "hate" Tracktion. That's entirely your own personal universe and 'problem' (not a true problem because your solution was to switch sequencers, which is fine!). There are thousands of other people who have found Tracktion to be a joy.
eXT turns my hair gray. I hate saying bad things about it because I love Jorgen's positivity and work ethic, but I absolutely hate using it as a sequencer still. How anyone can get a proper track done with it is still beyond me. That's a personal opinion and only in my wee little slice of the universe.
Consequently, I do NOT dismiss eXT and do NOT refrain from recommending it. I, unlike you, realize that my lack of affinity for the program is not necessarily going to translate as someone else's lack of affinity for it. A track created in Tracktion is a dream to me. It's even easier than using an 8-track tape machine, but infinitely more powerful. A track created in eXT is so far a living nightmare. I keep my eyes on the forum though because with all Jorgen's hard work, one day I'm hoping that he finally implements a usable workflow.
You hate Tracktion's workflow but love eXT's. That's really all the information I need to know that you have no real business recommending ANY sequencer to a newbie who is interested in working with AUDIO. A better option is to let the newbie demo everything possible for himself (certain programs don't offer a demo anymore, which is unfortunate).
Who knows? By some miracle, he might find eXT more accessible.
eXT's shortcomings in the audio and even merely the danged SETUP phase are far too significant for me to even consider it for even my wee little hobbyist meanderings. I've used Cubase and Plasma, and I own eXT. I have also demoed other products, but I am by no means an expert at all. But nor am I completely unaware of other people's needs in a sequencer. Rather than speak from my personal dislikes, I try my best to listen to the actual needs of the poster. In this case, I would easily recommend Tracktion. A friend of mine recently bought an interface that came with Cubase LE (or whatever the cut-down version was). I didn't go out of my way to recommend T, either, saying, "Well you have a free sequencer already! Try it out and see if you like it!" It's all about understanding the needs of the "client", not only expressing personal dislikes. Personal perspectives can, will, and SHOULD influence the stance you take; however, they should not eclipse the basic needs of the person requesting options.
So, no, there's no "truth" in what you say that "hurts". I still think you're full of shit.
As for development-- OK, so you're a cutting-edge-development whore. You get a boner for the fact that there's a new release of eXT weekly if not daily (often buggy, but I won't hold that against Jorgen who is a true prince among men). T no longer exhibits this behaviour in the public forum. As a beta-tester, I can assure you that development is continuous, daily, and current. Stopped a year and a half ago? That's just ridiculous and false.
Greg