AT2/Ampeg SVX in Sweetwater Catalog

[t-willy]

yeah, the word "modeling" was misused in my previous post. I should have said preset. either way, i get the bass sound i want for my metal tunes and i'm very happy with it. like i said, demos will tell all for AT2 and the Ampeg plug...

lates

t-willy

[Trojan Badger]

The response from IK is perfectly proper and correct of course, and they really can say no other. No-one doubts this is a good product and a good emulation of Ampeg's range: It's just a pity and a lost opportunity that it is tied to the one manufacturer, especially at this price. I suspect had Amplitube had, for example, Mesa Boogie written all over it, it would have drawn people to it like a moth to a flame, provided they were fans of Mesa and not dyed-in-the-wool AC30, or Marshall, or Fender, or Orange fans. I'm simply saying, you wouldn't do this to a guitarist, so it seems odd that this is the route taken for a bassist.

[Squids]

Okay, it is about time I chimed in on this one. Sorry I didn't sooner. Let me clarify a couple things. First, Ampeg is not a higher retail price than AT2. It is the same or possibly even less. But, the reason it is the price that it is is because of what it offers in terms of quality and effort between both IK AND Ampeg to create it. Most of the time when you model something you don't have actual participation from the original company who made the product! So, this is a VERY special product that I am very much behind.

If you don't call a $3,000 B15 a Rolls Royce or Ferrari of bass amps then I don't know what is. The fact that people found the B15 model which was A/Bed with a real B15 to be indistinguishable in both the IK booth AND even the Ampeg booth is a testament to its level of quality and accuracy. It's maybe more boutique than AmpliTube 2 which is more diverse. But, AmpliTube doesn't have these specific Ampeg amp models which had two companies going back and forth listening and engineering for it to exist. There are differences in the price of guitars right? Sometimes drastic because of craftsmanship or because it is a more specific model (like an Eric Clapton model that sells out for $17,000). Don't forget that craftsmanship can also exist in software products too as well as the benefit of brand recognition which is added value to the product (certainly an added cost for that luxury as well).

It just so happens that the craftsmenship in AmpliTube 2 is stunning and should probably cost a lot more than it does relatively but IK likes to keep major updates like that in the same price range as the previous version but offering 10X more value (just like what IK did with ST2 vs. ST1... think about it).

What Jason said is true. It is incredibly versatile for getting great bass tones. Most bass players and producers DO want a really good authentic sounding bass amp and the Ampeg is a classic. It doesn't mean that it will be the last bass amp that is ever modeled by IK either. But, it is a CHOICE one done at a very high end level. Man, I'd get this plug-in without a DOUBT! Are you kidding? It's the price of a Crate practice amp (which the mother company of Ampeg also makes btw) yet it gives you thousands of dollars of authentic classic bass amp sounds. I have two words for that: SIMPLY AWESOME!

I collect vintage gear for my studio and have some nice guitar amps. I'd like to have some Ampeg bass amps (or even one SVT like Funkybot said). I just can't do it (because I also want a Leslie 122, B3 and... there's only so much room and I am not even a bass player... but it doesn't mean I and everyone else doesn't still want a great bass tone! Right?).

So, I would look at it this way. I push for these kinds of things all the time. Quality products ALWAYS have their place. People are willing to spend $30,000 for a real Fairchild limiter with 4 or 5 big knobs on it. Why? Because it sounds amazing (and is also modeled in T-Racks and in the UAD card btw).

My personal feeling about the Pods is that they are ALL about convenience (my guitarist uses them live sometimes for small gigs) but not necessarily about accurate modeling. Maybe somewhat close but not enough for recording to me. That's just me perhaps. Others may feel different but most of the time I would choose the REAL deal whenever possible. But, when software can get VERY close with a bit more focus and effort then I feel like "Yes! I can use this. Even if maybe the real thing would still be better in some ways this is VERY, VERY close and works in the track".

I am speaking in general here. In some cases I would consider using ANYTHING on a track if it works sound-wise and that is without prejudice. But, as a user I tend to gravitate toward some things from experience and avoid others for the same reason. I personally would not jump to use a Bass Pod on a recording session but I wouldn't hesitate to use Ampeg SVX a ton. Sure, I am biased although I have many friends at Line 6 and I think they are brilliant, especially at making things convenient. The Variaxe (which my guitarist also has) is nothing short of brilliance. Markus Ryle is a legend (also creator of the Matrix 12 folks, he started Line 6). However, what I like about the Variaxe is that my lazy guitar player now can switch between electric and acoustic sounds on stage. It makes for a better more veratile sound live if you don't have roadies bringing you tuned guitars for every song. But, when it comes to recording I would use a real Martin or Taylor over that acoustic sound any day of the week!

So, all of the above are great products for different people's purposes. If you are doing demos then perhaps convenience and bang/variety for the buck is what you want! Hey, these products ARE successful so obviously many people do. However, many of us (especially people hanging around a forum like this so they can learn tips, tricks etc. from others) like to hunt for the gear and sounds that are going to make our tracks sound like a top pro recorded album or soundtrack (but not needing a major record label backing us just to be able to do it). THAT has always been my mission because although I have had the opportunity to work on a lot of records and tours I myself have never been able to get a record deal for my music. It's not easy getting companies to back you unless they see $$$$$ to no end from you (ie. it helps if you look a bit like Britney Spears or have been on some TV show like American Idol). When people like Jason Falkner or Kevin Gilbert have a hard time keeping record deals then you know we're in trouble.

So, my goal with sounds in SR and with my connection with IK is to bring to both myself and other musicians the power to be able to create their own top recordings with the sought after sounds of sampled instruments and effects. For AmpliTube 2 I sent off almost my entire stomp box collection for them to model. That's my fuzzface in there that cost a fortune (and will probably break on me) but has that Jimmy Hendrix sound from the 60's! I cannot tell you how pleased I am that I have it preserved now as a plug-in. HOLY $%($%* that is cool!

I just hung out with the guys from Earth, Wind and Fire and Chicago last night (great show btw, go see it). I talked to about 20 musicians including Philip Bailey who I met for the first time. I didn't even know that a lot of those guys used Sonik Synth 2, SampleTank and Sonic Refills. When Marvin their MD brought Philip over and said "Dude, THIS is the man that made Sonik Synth 2" I was beside myself. Then I brought the IK catalog with me and showed Verdine and all those guys the new stuff coming like Ampeg and AT2 (some of them already used AT1 and loved it) and Philharmonik, Studiophonik... they FLIPPED out. Pro musicians love this stuff. Honestly speaking with no BS. Those that have visited us at NAMM can back me up on this. It even surprises and delights me to see it happen but it CONNECTS with musicians that make music professionally.

To many people, if you owned all of IK and SR's products you'd have the most unbelievable content for your virtual studio and can roll records like you had a million dollar studio. Trust me. I've been in studios like A&M where Shelly Yakus (who seemingly had a monopoly on Pultec EQs) had racks and racks of tube outboard gear so engineers could have more hardware "instances" of those effects. I've been in studios with producers like T-Bone Burnette or Jack Joseph Puig (Wallflowers, Goo Goo Dolls, Counting Crows, Black Crows, Belly, Jellyfish... Bellyfish?, Roger Hodgson, Sam Phillips...) where they have every cool vintage amp, keyboard, guitar, drum, mic... It sure would be nice if WE all had that stuff too to make our records!!!! Right? Well, I am working on that. To get close to having that and an orchestra available at any time of the day or night is part of the goal here. Plus, a few other surprises.

Now THAT is a Squids Megapost to make up for me not chiming in earlier.

But, anyway, I am glad Ampeg SVX is going to exist. You don't have to get it. AT2 might be just fine for you. There might be a crossgrade discount though. It's already a great deal for what you get in my opinion. It just depends on what you're valuing and looking for. It's not always features and parameters that makes the value (as evidenced by a two knob LA2A).

[jeslipa]

Being from the Buffalo area in the seventies I had the pleasure of listening to one of the best Bass Players in the World, Billy Sheehan from Mr. Big (Talas at the time),not once but SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES! He played through an Ampeg SVT, and made that thing SCREAM! Totaly amazing sounds were coming through that amp, I for one will buy this plug in.

[Squids]

Being from the Buffalo area in the seventies I had the pleasure of listening to one of the best Bass Players in the World, Billy Sheehan from Mr. Big (Talas at the time),not once but SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES! He played through an Ampeg SVT, and made that thing SCREAM! Totaly amazing sounds were coming through that amp, I for one will buy this plug in.

He's one of our customers. I remember years ago I answered the phone when he called esoundz. So, I am sure we'll hear from him again when Ampeg SVX is out. Good guy. Great player too. You're right.

[Trojan Badger]

Squids and Jason,

Appreciate the time you've taken in addressing this (is that post length a record even for you Squids?!) It's clear from reading this that you really believe in this product, which is great.

Reading the sweetwater catalogue carefully I can see that in fact Ampeg SVX is more expensive than Amplitube 1 and I see no mention of Amplitube 2. So that clears up one misunderstanding which started this thread.

Yes, I can believe that a $3000 amp is a "Rolls Royce". Here in the UK, home of the Rolls, many more people buy Bentleys and Aston Martins now - and no-one who drives a Rolls has it as their only car. Even the old preserve of the Rolls - corrupt third world dictators - prefer Mercedes now.

IK has taken a bold strategy of investing in something with extreme quality rather than variety and versatility, in direct contrast to Amplitube itself. This is the kind of approach we expect from manufacturers on the Powercore, UAD or protools platform and is unusual in this space. While it is true to say that the power the virtual studio presents to is has the ability to replicate thousands upon thousands of dollareuropounds of equipment the problem is that in this kind of area we've become used to that. High High end replication at appropriate cost is one of many kind of plugin, Ampeg is one of many great manufacturers, bass players are one of many kinds of musicians, musicians are one of many kinds of computer users. It's a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche and no matter how good it is it'll be an uphill struggle to be really profitable with it, especially if someone else spends 50% of the effort coming out with a 90% as good replication of 5 times as many manufacturers.

All that said I'm interested and will enjoy trying out a demo.

[Squids]

It's not that nitch. It is a versatile bass amp solution. First of all, it is MORE than just a single Ampeg bass amp. It is a whole line of high end bass amps and on top of that it has other IK technology such as a selection of stomp boxes and more from AmpliTube. So, it starts with Ampeg bass amp modeling and goes quite a bit further thanks to being powered by the new AT2 engine.

Now I understand what you guys were talking about wiht the price. The original MSRP of AmpliTube 1 was $399. It went down to $299 when AT2 was announced. But, AT2 is at least $399 and Ampeg is no more than that.

It may seem that IK is known for doing only diverse things but actually one of IK's first products (and one of the most popular) is T-Racks which is ALSO very specifically modeled gear, yet put together to be MORE than just the sum of the parts. You get ONE parametric EQ model, ONE Compressor, ONE Multiband Limiter and ONE softclipper and on top of that a whole sweet suite of them together in a chain for mastering use. But, each one of those elements sounds AWESOME and has versatility itself. T-Racks is very much like UAD or Powercore products too.

In my opinion, both are very nice to have! You have AT2 which does everything under the sun and you have Ampeg SVX which does bass amps with a very focused approach in cooperation with the original manufacturer. One is a slammin' deal and the other is a gem. Both are really but everything is relative.

Anyway, if you are worried about not getting the modeling of other guitar and bass amps from IK in the future then don't. If AT2 and Ampeg SVX sell as well as they should relative to their quality then it will only fuel the fire for IK to bring out more and more models. Feel free to send me an email of your requests. I compile those sort of things from time to time (like I did with my stomps) and submit them to the powers that be. You never know...

[Funkybot]

Hi guys, Trojan, if you look at the Sweetwater catalog again right to the left of Ampeg SVX the Amplitube item reads "Amplitube 2" but ...

[Funkybot]

BTW since you're taking requests for future amps Squids, I'd love to see an Orange head an cab in AT2. Not even Line 6 has modelled one yet, and they're so much fun to play (once you put some good ear plugs in).

[Trojan Badger]

Bot,
Are you talking about an actual physical catalogue? Their website has Amplitube 1 at $249 and Ampeg at $319.
Squids, again appreciate the reply. I'd like to see orange as well, I'd like to see a Fender Bassman (like my own, but without teenagers constantly borrowing it, dropping it, and breaking the valves the whole time), Ashdown, Laney and some genuine late 80s and early 90s Trace Elliots, with a variety of cabs. In fact I've started wondering whether it's time to move the whole amp modelling arena into convolution - you know, I would pay twice what ampeg SVX is advertised for to use a sampling-style solution with really good convolution modules...you guys in SR make such good samples this could be a logical next step for you in the effects area.
$319 for SVX is a good price for something made with such love and attention. Of course, as soon as it gets to the UK it'll be twice the price. Gutting.

[Squids]

Hi guys, Trojan, if you look at the Sweetwater catalog again right to the left of Ampeg SVX the Amplitube item reads "Amplitube 2" but ...

Gotchya.

[Squids]

BTW since you're taking requests for future amps Squids, I'd love to see an Orange head an cab in AT2. Not even Line 6 has modelled one yet, and they're so much fun to play (once you put some good ear plugs in).

You and I think alike. Guys, email me your requests. Don't post them here. I want it to be a surprise if it happens.

[Squids]

Bot,
Are you talking about an actual physical catalogue? Their website has Amplitube 1 at $249 and Ampeg at $319.
Squids, again appreciate the reply. I'd like to see orange as well, I'd like to see a Fender Bassman (like my own, but without teenagers constantly borrowing it, dropping it, and breaking the valves the whole time), Ashdown, Laney and some genuine late 80s and early 90s Trace Elliots, with a variety of cabs. In fact I've started wondering whether it's time to move the whole amp modelling arena into convolution - you know, I would pay twice what ampeg SVX is advertised for to use a sampling-style solution with really good convolution modules...you guys in SR make such good samples this could be a logical next step for you in the effects area.
$319 for SVX is a good price for something made with such love and attention. Of course, as soon as it gets to the UK it'll be twice the price. Gutting.

Guys, let's stop talking about Sweetwater's catalog pls. I don't want to be liable for any incorrect information being passed around. Thanks.

Plus, this is an esoundz forum really. Not that I don't love Sweetwater (I do, I think they are excellent). But, to protect the innocent... we also shy away from posting about prices in the forum in general (for the most part anyway).

[harmony gardens]

Interesting read here. Not being a bass player, I don't quite know if a product like Ampeg would be up my alley,,, but it definately brings some questions to mind.

Squids, how do you actually go about sampling a bass sound that winds up in something like SS2 or the Bass Capsule?? When you sample a bass, what sort of thought is given to the amping?? What would a product like this give to a keyboard player, that samples wouldn't? Will any elements of Ampeg find thier way into ST,,, or perhaps be used in Studiophonik?? It sounds to me like this is more or less playland for bass players,,, is that a correct assumption?

[Squids]

Interesting read here. Not being a bass player, I don't quite know if a product like Ampeg would be up my alley,,, but it definately brings some questions to mind.

Squids, how do you actually go about sampling a bass sound that winds up in something like SS2 or the Bass Capsule?? When you sample a bass, what sort of thought is given to the amping?? What would a product like this give to a keyboard player, that samples wouldn't? Will any elements of Ampeg find thier way into ST,,, or perhaps be used in Studiophonik?? It sounds to me like this is more or less playland for bass players,,, is that a correct assumption?

Ampeg SVX is an interesting plug-in because it is many things to many people. It is both "a great bass amp" AND specifically an "Ampeg model collection". Since there are no dedicated bass amp model plug-ins yet really this is going to be a hot one and I'll tell you why I think so.

Take bass players who own virtual studios like ProTools, Cubase etc. No brainer. They will get it. Almost every one I can think of. I could see it at the NAMM show. I stopped Tony Levin walking by and said "IK is coming out with an Ampeg plug-in" and all he could talk about was "when?". This was a universal reaction from a ton of bass players.

But, you want to hear something odd? I think the majority of people who will buy it will NOT be bass players. You want to know why? Out of all the people that might have a real bass amp rig in hardware it would be bass players. They probably don't have this many thousands of dollars of Ampeg modern and vintage amps but they might have an SVT and cab or a B15 (or any other bass amp surely). But, every songwriter, producer, engineer who doesn't play bass and yet DOES make music with bass guitar tracks could REALLY use a bass amp because they probably don't have one in their studio! I have a few guitar amps in my studio and I am not even really much of a guitar player. I do have a couple cool bass guitars but no bass amp. I can't justify spending a couple grand and taking up the space... I am not even a bass player! But, it doesn't mean I don't want the sound of a bass amp in music production. Most people just compromise and run direct, which is still a great sound. When I record a bass player through his amp rig then that's nice. But, the benefits of having the direct bass and running it through virtual amps later that have the authentic character sound to it is just powerful! I love it.

In terms of sampling basses, I tend to sample them direct leaving open the possibility of processing it if you want to. It'd be nice to have Ampeg to run our bass samples through! Occassionally I will sample a bass such as a Hofner Beatle Bass or a Ricky 4001 both direct and into an amp though (like an SVT with an 8X10 cab). It's nice for capturing a certain timbre for sure. Although I also like the idea of running the direct into the Ampex SVX plug-in too.

As for an Ampeg model ending up in Studiophonik... well, I cannot comment on that but you can imagine that I am all for that! So, who knows? You know how great IK is about mixing technology together. Maybe it won't happen right away but you can imagine that it can only get better and better the more of these types of products exist. I am excited about it. Can you tell?