Waves Platinum or Voxengo Plugs and a computer upgrade?

[sidrat]

Regarding the "Musician's Bundle(s)":

In the UK the prices are higher than the US$ price quoted by somebody earlier in the thread. Buying online I found the prices are as follows:

Musician's Bundle 1: £129
Super Tap, Renaissance Axx, MetaFlanger, Renaissance Vox, Doubler.

Musician's Bundle 2: £129
Super Tap, Renaissance EQ, Renaissance Compressor, Renaissance Vox, Doubler

Musician's Bundle 1 & 2: £299

The combined 1 & 2 price must be a joke! Not only is it more than buying the two bundles seperately but also notice that 3 of the 5 plugs in each bundle are the same anyway . Already the Musician's Bundles are beginning to look less attractive. But wait... take a closer look...

It becomes very clear that both these bundles are designed as "Tasters" that will encourage/necessitate you buying more (Waves) plugs! Neither bundle is anything close to a comprehensive set of day-to-day effects! Notice that neither bundle even contains a standard Reverb type effect! Nor do you get any modulation effects, a limiter, multichannel dynamics, channel strip...etc.

What you DO get though is a PACE dongle and a taste of the Waves product line from which you can then buy more of their products!

And this is where it gets even more dodgy! Suppose you like the Renaissance Compressor, EQ and Vox, and want the Renaissance Reverb to match your growing set. Guess what... you have to fork out a premium price to buy it individually!!

Now I'm not complaining about Waves quality - I already posted above that I think all the Waves plugs are very good, and that some are outstanding...

What I AM saying though is that it's a joke to suggest that any Waves plugs - especially the highly misleading and cynically marketed Musicians Bundles - are a good deal. Waves are NOT good bang-for-your-buck, and that is the simple truth of the matter.

i don't think you could be more wrong if you tried. first off, nobody is being forced or "necessitated" to buy anything. the musicians bundle is a complete bundle of plugs unto itself - no hidden licensing fees or limitations (despite what you'd like others to belive). like i said, it's become fashionable to slag waves...

secondly, ren eq and ren comp are two of their most popular "meat and potato" plugs. being able to get them both (along with a few other useful plugs) without having to shell out big bucks is a -tremendous value-, imo. ren comp alone is worth buying the bundle. frankly, it's still one of the best native compressors available.

thirdly, where is it mandated that the musicians bundle should include a reverb? that's just -your- opinion. anyway, why would you complain when you can get sir and noisevault ir's for free? fyi, ren verb isn't one of the best plugs in their lineup...

[jens]

Use your brain...

[bmanic]

Use your brain...

I can troll some too sometimes!

[headquest]

i don't think you could be more wrong if you tried.

Well in your reply you fail to show any factual error in my post

I think your fundamental error is to think that I have any agenda here. I merely responded to a request for advice. I am not anti-Waves. In fact I have complimented - even flattered them several times in this thread. They are great plugs.

It seems to be you who has an agenda here... - I can only assume that you have paid a large sum for Waves plugs yourself and now need to defend your purchase.

first off, nobody is being forced or "necessitated" to buy anything.

I never said they were. In fact I poitnted out that they are not.

the musicians bundle is a complete bundle of plugs unto itself

Hardly!

- no hidden licensing fees or limitations (despite what you'd like others to belive).

I never said that at all. Wherever did you get that from

like i said, it's become fashionable to slag waves...

And like I said,

I think all the Waves plugs are very good, and that some are outstanding... "

Moving on...

secondly, ren eq and ren comp are two of their most popular "meat and potato" plugs. being able to get them both (along with a few other useful plugs) without having to shell out big bucks is a -tremendous value-, imo. ren comp alone is worth buying the bundle. frankly, it's still one of the best native compressors available.

True. But as I and other here have pointed out, there are as good/better ones available, without PACE, and inexpensive. People ARE allowed to choose you know, and people are allowed to advise others, and compliment independant developers here at KVR

thirdly, where is it mandated that the musicians bundle should include a reverb? that's just -your- opinion. anyway, why would you complain when you can get sir and noisevault ir's for free? fyi, ren verb isn't one of the best plugs in their lineup...

As I said, I tested all the Waves diamond bundle, and personally I very much liked the Renaissance Reverberator . One of the best software reverbs I have tried. It's very subjective I guess, but Rverb is one of my favourite Waves plugs.

[bmanic]

Whee! Just noticed that the "use your brain" post was my 1000th!



!!

[jens]

not a bad post for #1000


how many times do you had a 1000th post by now b.t.w.?

[kevvvvv]

Is anybody here using Kjaerhus' Golden Audio Channel?

At first I didn't easily connect with this plug as I've nil experience of using two comps and eqs in parallel or series.

Plus it's complex by regular standards (I hate programming when I could be writing music)

But ... I'm growing to like this plug more and more. It does things that I can't do elsewhere.

If I was a pro audo studio owner, having to mix other people's music on a daily basis, I might be shy of GAC as it does tend to give a distinct sound of its own (which is maybe not so predictable? Might offend a customer?)

But for a writer or project studio guy - it gives a helluva sound, and is one of my "finds"

I might add that I'm of the opinion that all the good eqs and comps are all good, and that for my purposes there's little to choose between them.

What I like is plugs that give a "special sound" that adds some new character to my music. Hence mentioning GAC today.

[bmanic]

I use GAC all the time. Not on vocals but on synth and drum sounds. It's a very useful plugin indeed!

- bManic

[omo]

Waves are good. There's RenComp, RenBass, C1, some very good LinEQ and linear multiband comp, lots of other effects, simply great delay and all in very clear GUI. It's a grat package as a whole. It's just that they've been here for too long and people got tired, they always want something new, but IMHO it still holds its own against competition. But I wouldn't buy it in my private home project studio today. It makes more sence for a commercial studio, I think. There are some very creative free plug-ins as well as already mentioned Voxengo, Kjaerhus and some others adn I'd go for some of those even tho it makes life a bit more difficult (different interfaces, lots of stuff to learn, especially about those Elephant modes and such). Good luck

[Notron User]

I use GAC all the time. Not on vocals but on synth and drum sounds. It's a very useful plugin indeed!

- bManic

I found voxformer from Voxengo to be useful as well (bought it before the GAC came out).

I find that it can really wake up some tired plugs like the pgg wave 2.V.

[sidrat]

I think your fundamental error is to think that I have any agenda here. I merely responded to a request for advice. I am not anti-Waves. In fact I have complimented - even flattered them several times in this thread. They are great plugs.

huh? i'm not disagreeing with your "agenda" (whatever that means) - just some of your statements.

maybe you can tell me where i wrote that you said the waves plugs are bad?

It seems to be you who has an agenda here... - I can only assume that you have paid a large sum for Waves plugs yourself and now need to defend your purchase.

you can assume anything you'd like... but you'd still be wrong.

first off, nobody is being forced or "necessitated" to buy anything.

I never said they were. In fact I poitnted out that they are not.

"It becomes very clear that both these bundles are designed as "Tasters" that will encourage/necessitate you buying more (Waves) plugs!"

your words, not mine...

the musicians bundle is a complete bundle of plugs unto itself

Hardly!

again, that's -your- opinion...

- no hidden licensing fees or limitations (despite what you'd like others to belive).

I never said that at all. Wherever did you get that from

weren't you the one who said that the bundle wasn't complete and that people who bought it were "necessitated" to buy more waves plugs? if that's true, then you'd have to spend money on additional plugs and/or licensing fees...

secondly, ren eq and ren comp are two of their most popular "meat and potato" plugs. being able to get them both (along with a few other useful plugs) without having to shell out big bucks is a -tremendous value-, imo. ren comp alone is worth buying the bundle. frankly, it's still one of the best native compressors available.

True. But as I and other here have pointed out, there are as good/better ones available, without PACE, and inexpensive. People ARE allowed to choose you know, and people are allowed to advise others, and compliment independant developers here at KVR

the fact that there are alternatives is irrelevant - i was talking about the waves plugs in particular...

thirdly, where is it mandated that the musicians bundle should include a reverb? that's just -your- opinion. anyway, why would you complain when you can get sir and noisevault ir's for free? fyi, ren verb isn't one of the best plugs in their lineup...

As I said, I tested all the Waves diamond bundle, and personally I very much liked the Renaissance Reverberator . One of the best software reverbs I have tried. It's very subjective I guess, but Rverb is one of my favourite Waves plugs.

i agree. it -is- very subjective...

[headquest]

Sidrat, if you would read the WHOLE thread you would see that Jens already pulled me up on the post you keep quoting from. I admitted that it did not make my points very clearly, and wrote a subsequent post in which I was much clearer.

Going over this again seems very pedantic. By being hostile you are making what was otherwise hopefully a helpful thread for monkeymanx into something else

maybe you can tell me where i wrote that you said the waves plugs are bad?

Sure. You included the following snide remark in the middle of your reply to my comments:

: ...(despite what you'd like others to belive). like i said, it's become fashionable to slag waves...

Anyone who has read the thread will have seen me compliment the Waves plugs several times here. For you to strongly imply otherwise or suggest that I am part of a trend to slag off Waves is simply wrong and paranoid on your part.

It becomes very clear that both these bundles are designed as "Tasters" that will encourage/necessitate you buying more (Waves) plugs!

your words, not mine...

There are two things that I would like you to take note of in what I wrote...

1) I actually wrote "encourage/necessitate". The use of the / is shorthand for "either, or". So my point was that SOME people will feel "encouraged" to buy other plugs, OTHERS will be "necessitated" to (because they will actually need effects not included in the bundle). So I was NOT saying that everyone who buys the Musicians Bundles will be "necessitated" to buy more plugs.

2) I wrote the word Waves in brackets: "(Waves)". In other words, those who are either enticed or necessitated to have other effects plugs NEED NOT necessarily buy them from Waves. It would be crazy to suggest that they MUST buy other plugs from Waves. In my discussion with Jens I already clarified this point. READ THE WHOLE THREAD!!

However, I am sure that the producers of Waves plugs may have a marketing strategy to encourage brand loyalty - and if you think otherwise you obviously have no clue about marketing!

the musicians bundle is a complete bundle of plugs unto itself

Hardly!

again, that's -your- opinion...

Yep, that is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it . I could not produce the stuff I do using JUST the Musicians Bundle. There are other effects that are essential here.

If you ARE able to do all your music using ONLY the Musicians Bundle, that's cool for you. Feel free to share how that works for you

- no hidden licensing fees or limitations (despite what you'd like others to belive).

I never said that at all. Wherever did you get that from

weren't you the one who said that the bundle wasn't complete and that people who bought it were "necessitated" to buy more waves plugs? if that's true, then you'd have to spend money on additional plugs and/or licensing fees...

Well, NO, that's the point, dude! I didn't say that anyone was "necessitated to buy more Waves plugs". You are misquoting me again on both the points I explained above. If you insist on misquoting me continuously it makes it difficult to have a halpful discussion here

- no hidden licensing fees or limitations (despite what you'd like others to belive).

"Licensing Fees" suggests that people paying for the Musicians Bundle then have to pay additional fees to Waves to continue using the plugs or getting support. I never stated or even implied this. You are misrepresenting me!

"limitations" is commonly understood to refer to software being Time-limited (e.g. 30 days trial) or have certain features disabled. Again I never implied this at all. The plugs in the Musicians Bundle are full versions. I think everyone here knows that.

So please stop suggesting I have said things which I have not - it is simply dishonest of you, dude.

The fact that there are alternatives is irrelevant - i was talking about the waves plugs in particular...

Well you may be focussed only on Waves, but the rest of us were making comparissons. The original post invited comparissons to be made, and that is what we have all being doing. If you want to limit discussions to everyone singing the praises of the Waves plugs and avoid comparissons being made you are on the wrong thread!

[kevvvvv]

Please guys, don't get proud ... this is a great thread

[abi]

of course i haven´t read the whole thread. just a few thoughts on waves vs. voxengo:
i think waves plugins are good but much too expensive. instead of getting those, i would suggest to buy all plugins you might need from voxengo, psp and sonalksis. there are some attractive bundle offers. if you still got some money left get a powercore or a uad card.

[sidrat]

Well you may be focussed only on Waves, but the rest of us were making comparissons. The original post invited comparissons to be made, and that is what we have all being doing. If you want to limit discussions to everyone singing the praises of the Waves plugs and avoid comparissons being made you are on the wrong thread!

have you been drinking? if YOU read the thread, you'd notice i suggested two bundles, some freebies and some other plugs to add later. between them, anyone would have the basic tools to do a decent mix with.

fwiw, YOU were the one to start complaining about waves - not me. but, we shouldn't let facts get in the way of your incessant bitching.

i guess it's true when they say "you can't reason with the unreasonable."

take care...