Is Logic 5.5 (PC) still a smart choice in 2005 ?

[disturb]

ok i'll try to comment on everyone...

flipper > you're right about trying to find the perfect host, i realized sometimes ago that it doesn't exist..
About Live!, yeah i might give it another spin, but how do you manage it on a dual screen display, since there aren't windows? I remember i used to put the plugins on my second screen and it was actually pretty handy since they would show up when i select the track...

macq > besides the automations that i really don't like (takes a lot of time to come up with rhytmical ones, and editing my controller recorded automations is a pain) ; there isn't much i don't like about cubase's functions, all i need is in there, it's just the way that it's all crafted together makes it too 'rigid' and wastes a lot of my time hunting windows etc


ttoz > i've heard about the osx on pc thing, but i thought this wouldn't be a quite reliable setup...? do you know more about it?
And about the dva, is it the thing that saves the plugin's ressources when it's not actually being processed?

thanks for all your comments so far, there were some good thoughts

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Roland Babbage]

I don't understand why a sequencer has to be ultra-cutting edge. Logic 5 for PC is stable and it supports VST (though probably not as well as Cubase!) and it works. Who needs a constant supply of new features (the VST plugs can supply those to some extent)? One thing I have to say though is: the automation is over-rated. It still as plenty of annoyances about it, just as Logic 4's did, just with snazzier graphics now. I would say Logic is still worth learning and if you're planning to commercially release your music on a proper record label then just look at the number of people making a good living from music who still swear by it.

[UltraJv]

ttoz > i've heard about the osx on pc thing, but i thought this wouldn't be a quite reliable setup...? do you know more about it?

I don't see any reason why it would be UNreliable, since apple are simply using intel chips that are available to anyone else! First reports suggest it is running BETTER on pc's than "mactels" !!!!!!

And about the dva, is it the thing that saves the plugin's ressources when it's not actually being processed?

sure is.

http://www.osx86project.org/index.php?o ... 8&Itemid=2

[mm_FX]

Diehard 5.51 user here - I'd say it's perfectly usable if:

1. you don't need huuuge sample libs which require more than 1GB of RAM

2. you don't need PDC on Aux tracks/Buses (5.51 has PDC on audio and instrument tracks)

3. you don't need MIDI from plugins

I've always found the VST hosting to be totally fine. For certain features that Logic doesn't support, you can always use something like EnergyXT (which works great in Logic).

The 1GB limit really can be a show-stopper though. While Logic will run, it is prone to weird errors sometimes.

I am looking closely at the Mac situation, but 7.1/Tiger looks fairly unstable at the moment. Personally I'd rather wait for a G6 and Logic 8 combination :p

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Angus_FX]

Not yet. OSX/x86's "Rosetta" translation engine doesn't (yet?) convert Altivec instructions, so it's doubtful if Logic/osx/ppc would work on either a real or hacked OSX/x86 machine. Don't expect high performance audio apps to work satisfactorily until they've been recompiled specifically for OSX/x86.

Of course, there's no doubt that Logic will eventually be released for OSX/x86 (once the public phase of the transition begins), and at that point it may be possible to run it on PC hardware.. depends how aggressively Apple plugs the loopholes that have allowed this in the first place.

[Sascha Franck]

What I like with Logic 5.5.1:
- Ergonomics.
- Ergonomics.
- Ergonomics.

No really, this has got to be my number one gripe with anything else (I own SX3 and eXT as well).
I just got annoyed in SX about the lack of something which you'd think would be a minor thing, but it isn't:
In Logic, when you press record, it starts to record from locator position. OK, almost every host does so. Now, when I'm unhappy with the current recording, all I have to do is to press record again and it'll instantly start recording from the same position. In SX I'd have to stop, delete (or mute) the unwanted part, reset to locator and press record again. When working quick this is an IMMENSE time saviour.
Heck, SX doesn't even record audio during count in, unless you're using the preroll function, which requires to press record twice. They can't even get such a fundamental function right at the b0rg-house, how lame.
A similar transport functionality exists for normal playback. Hit play again while the song is running and it'll take you back to the last startpoint (this is similar in WaveLab, in SX there's nada). Great when recording MIDI stuff and using "capture last take" instead of actually recording.

These are the small things that still make Logic worth every penny.
In addition there's the more obvious things, such as the configurable mixer and the brilliant quantization features (still proveably unmatched by ANY host, without the slightest doubt). Probably not as important if you are into strict dance stuff. But I ain't.
Then of course there's the plugins which (partially) are still great (delays, ES2, EVP, EVD6, EVOC). But that wouldn't be my main reason for using it anymore.
And of course there's the brilliant MIDI editing, which isn't matched by any host either - at least for me it isn't.

On the downsides:
No freeze and no offline bounce. Yes, on CPU intensive projects this can become laborious.
No stretching of audio in your arrange. This is something I'd REALLY like to have, especially considering that Logics time and pitch machine is truly awful.
No proper plugin support. There's a lot of plugins causing note hangers. Energy XT is however adressing that issue more or less nicely (it'll steal your keycommands though, so you need to click back into Logic...).
No support for MIDI output plugins. Can be adressed via eXT and a virtual MIDI driver too, but it's a bit more work.
No delay compensation on busses. A shame, as something as nice as SIR simply doesn't make any sense in Logic (well, you can use it on tracks, but what a waste...).
Very limited audio editing capabilities, such as no inline processing of clips (or parts of them). This is another thing I'd really love to have. Even worse as you can use an external editor, but Logic won't allow you to have the file altered, so you need to "save as" and reimport. Sucks (especially as this has been working in 4.2 I think).
Nothing like "warp" or "liquid" audio. Personally I wouldn't use it often, a nice addition nonetheless. The same goes for internal audio slicing and quantizing. Logic's strip silence is rudimentary at best, whereas hosts such as SX almost offer ReCycle alike slicing quality.

Even with all those cons, for me it's the (small? IMO not...) ergonomical features and the (allready mentioned) incredibly efficient audio engine that still make me use it.
But then, I'd consider myself being pretty much of a Logic expert and handling it has become a second nature for me, it feels like an instrument, rather than like a tool. This has never been the case with Cubase (which I've been using since the glory old Atari 1.0 days). So maybe that's the main point for me.

If I'd start today, I'd most likely chose something else. eXT defenitely has potential, SX isn't a bad program either (apart from the horribly bad GUI design) and from what it looks like, Samplitude, Sonar and Live aren't all that bad either.

As far as switching to Apple goes: Perhaps, even most likely, but defenitely not now. They need to build a competitive computer, which their current models (apart from the really great dual CPU support) certainly aren't, at least not at this price. And right now, the current Logic versions aren't *that* far away. In some aspects Logic/PC/eXT even is a more flexible solution (full MIDI learn for layered/chained plugins, yummy...).

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Sascha Franck]

There's been rumours of an actual Logic 6 version for Windows to exist inhouse at Emapple. Well, nobody knows.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Sascha Franck]

MAN, you must type fast!

No, I could've typed that hours ago. It's just about when pressing "submit".

[original flipper]

HI

That kinda roll's of the tongue -

"Apple's Logic Audio applet for WINDOWS"

No doubt they will leave technical support to a third party!

Seriously, I don't think so - it is one of the products that guarantees Mac hardware sales - they would possibly loose 50% upwards of Logic users to the PC market ,should it become available to 'us' again.

UNLESS Apple were to make a hybrid PC ... this is getting silly now!

Flipper.

[Resonance]

What I like with Logic 5.5.1:
- Ergonomics.
- Ergonomics.
- Ergonomics.

Even with all those cons, for me it's the (small? IMO not...) ergonomical features and the (allready mentioned) incredibly efficient audio engine that still make me use it.

Exactly.

No other host comes close to the little things that make working on a project better. It gets to a point where Logic fades into the background and you don't even notice it. The 'project' becomes what you notice, NOT the host you're working in.

There's nothing worse than fighting a host to make simple things happen, and then having to come up with sh*tty workarounds to fix them.

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The only thing I wish Logic 5.5 PC had was offline bouncing. I hate having to bounce every little thing in real-time. But on the upside, it gives you time to walk away and give your ears a break, get a drink, grab a bite etc.