Audition isn't After Effects ... sadly ...

[rs_ml]

Coming from a compositing software like After Effects
I'm quite confused by the way Audition handles effect
filters. In After Effects it's easy to animate
FX parameters, layer them non-destructively and
rearrange them easily.

And most importantly every FX is in a list, making
changes and recognizing your filter structure easy.
Something like:

track
+ effect 1
++ parameter 1
++ parameter 2
+ effect 2
++ parameter 1

I just tried the demo of Audition for some time,
but it's visible that it used to be Cool Edit and
it's not based on "Adobe UI structures".

Any quite easy, but powerful audio only (no MIDI),
multitrack application you can recommend for PCs
with VST automation/animation support?

Or if I'm wrong, please correct me, RS

[No name]

Well I suppose most programs now a days support midi to some extent regardless. I would say for editing ability, and ease of use, Acid would be a contender. Once again, it does support VST automation, but it seems to still be in its "childhood" so to speak.

[McLilith]

Any quite easy, but powerful audio only (no MIDI),
multitrack application you can recommend for PCs
with VST automation/animation support?

Umm... use Tracktion and ignore the MIDI features?

I'm not sure why the product would have to be audio-only. Having a few extra features usually doesn't hurt anything.


take care,
McLilith

[rs_ml]

No MIDI doesn't hurt, but it should be a quite cheap and easy to understand
software or ehm, After Effects like

Read a little about Tracktion, it looks a lot like Autodesk Combustion, but
I was distracted by the price, as it's quite cheap compared to other
(semi)professional tools ...

Thanks a lot, RS

[John Vulich]

Read a little about Tracktion, it looks a lot like Autodesk Combustion, but
I was distracted by the price, as it's quite cheap compared to other
(semi)professional tools ...

If it makes you feel any better... I can PM with with my address and you can mail me $1,000.00 and you can pretend it went to your purchase of Tracktion.

[BONES]

Coming from a compositing software like After Effects
I'm quite confused by the way Audition handles effect
filters.

Coming from After Effects I* imagine almost everything would be confusing. AE has the most infuriatingly bad workflow in history.

I just tried the demo of Audition for some time,
but it's visible that it used to be Cool Edit and
it's not based on "Adobe UI structures".

Thank Christ! I assumed that as soon as Adobe got their mitts on it they would set about ruining the GUI and workflow but I have been pleasantly surprised that they have, by and large, left it alone. Its nowhere near as slick as COOL EDIT but its not nearly as bad as it could have been.

I'm not sure about Audition, but the huge difference between CE2k and AE is that CE2k works destructively, like Photoshop, whereas AE never alters your source, it just adds filters non-destructively on top.

Read a little about Tracktion, it looks a lot like Autodesk Combustion

I've killed people for saying less than that.

[rs_ml]

I don't want to argue about user interfaces, I'm also working with 3ds max,
which also has some similarites of handling filters in time ... But even if
my work is destructive in a way I don't like working destructively

For the Combustion/Tracktion comparison - it's a single screen, non-cluttered
interface, which is unique and I didn't mean to insult anyone ...

Any other proposals? RS

[Scotrick]

Well, yeah, there's Wavelab, and then Sony's product... whatever it's called... I'm a little confused by what you call 'animating,' the effects, and the 'list?'

I use Wavelab, and it works great for my needs, but I'm not sure I'm doing any 'animating,' of the effect signals...

I suspect you would need to explain what you're trying to accomplish, and then why your current 'host of choice,' AE, is no longer up to the task.

You always are going to run into problems when you come onto the forum saying,

Program A doesn't work like program B, which I'm totally used to and have worked with for ten years... and I'm too busy to describe my workflow but can someone else recommend for me a program that I'm going to shoot down in a heartbeat using my own secret use requirements?



I mean the smiley guy sincerely. You have to help us help you, and you also have to remember that crazy as it seems, other people love their programs as much as you love yours, and without describing what you're trying to accomplish, you're just going to piss people off as you dismiss their suggestions out of hand, especially on something like price... KVR in general is based on goodwill and kindness, and the idea that software is often more expensive than it needs to be... thus the plethora of free and cheap programs, and the presence of hardworking developers to make same.[/i]

[birrbits]

Audition is certainly not leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessor Cool Edit. But I agree, that thankfully the UI is much the same. I hope that with the next release Adobe pull thier head out and at the very least provide VST automation beyond wet/dry levels.

With that said, Audition is still the most powerful audio editor I've encountered...

[rs_ml]

Please forgive me my bad english first and second the fact, that
graphic applications are different than audio (by nature).

I want to create a collaged sountrack for my next experimental movie,
where I want to record noises/atmospheres and layer them under the movie.
As there are many great VST plugins around (many pointed to by members
of the forum), I want to layer them over the recorded bits and animated
their parameters according to the sound.

As I'm used to work non-destructively in a way, combining things, copying
keyframes and trying different versions, I'm looking for an audio editor
allowing me to work kind of random and spontaneous.

I don't want to render audio effects without being able to go back, but being
able to freeze a track for better performance.

I'm not afraid to learn a new application, but as I spend many years with
graphic apps, so I'm used to certain concepts and functions. After Effects
maybe not the best application, but for the last 6 years I got along with it

As I got some great response and as people in this forum love their art and
tools, maybe someone shares the same roots. For the moment I'm downloading
the Tracktion demo. And forgive me my comment on the price. I was just
suprised, as Mackie normally sells more expensive hardware and many VSTs
are more expensive than this host.

Anyway, thank you, RS

[BONES]

I think you need to be looking at a sequencer rather than an audio editor. You can think of apps like Audition as being more like Photoshop, primarily for making static changes to a file. If you need to automate effects then its probably more appropriate to use a sequencer. It will give you the flexibility to use real-time instruments as well as prerendered audio clip.

[gambaytheunspoken]

rs ml, from what you say in your last post, I think you might be better off not with an audio editing program like AA or a vst host like Tracktion but with a program like Vegas Video, which used to do audio quite well but is principally a video edition/dvd authoring app. You might also want to try the demo of DVD architect. The kind of audio collage you seem to want to do is done quite quickly and easily in the latter. Good luck.
Ciao

[Scotrick]

Yup. What BONES is saying is exactly right, if I'm understanding your needs.

Most of the VST effects you refer to use MIDI to control their parameters, and as such you would import your video into a sequencer that records MIDI, then play with the various parameters of the VST effect.

Cubase SX 3, Nuendo (a very pro app for video), Sonar, etc all work well with video... and I'm sure many other sequencers as well.

[rs_ml]

Thanks guys. As I intended only to use VST filters on WAV recordings,
no VSTi synthesizers, so I thought I wouldn't need MIDI. Though some
fader control would be nice to drive the parameters (any recommendations
on this, Mackie on this side is more expensive).

I have seen Nuendo and Cubase for some months while my last soundtracks were
produced, but I found the hardware/software setup quite expensive and
complicated, at least on a PC

For DVD architect - just found a programm that creates DVDs, probably the
wrong one. Which company did it (not Sony)?

RS

[tetraplan]

Hmmm.
After Effects has a layer-like approach, but other compositors seem to use a modular approach (people who actually use these can correct me here).

So, maybe something like AudioMulch might be in order? You can use the FilePlayers to play the .wavs, and build effect networks to treat them.
There is a timeline where you can set up parameter envelopes (you can automate just about anything there). It's also fairly light on it's feet, it won't require a top-of-the-line machine to run. And it's insanely stable.

Groet, Erik