Max or Reaktor ??help me decide..

[bluemondy]

im testing this 2 , trying to find out wich one i wanna work with.. so far i think reaktor is more what i need,
"need" maybe not the right word, i think with reaktor i will start right away doing some stuff, with max , im getting the felling i need to learn a lot first.. before i come up with something
i try one max patch, can´t remember if is one of the examples of the demo or if was one that i downloaded from some max objects site, was somekind of a sampler, and i was very impressed , i was playing with my sounds and that little tool and enjoying a lot,.. but my problem with max is i can´t built stuff like that and i can´t see on cycling74 site if the program comes with a library like it happens with reaktor,.. plus on the max objects sites i think the users only share little stuff , patches to help other users to built their own stuff (ain´t sure if im correct here)...

so ..for someone who wanna start using and creating sounds, melodies, and not so much to "built" synths,samplers,etc .., cus being honest, i wouldn´t know how to do it ..( in the future i will learn)
max or reaktor??

one last thing , thats not so important, i prefer the
"chaotic" look of max patches ..

[Grain Bastard]

I would say out of the two, Reaktor probably would be best. I say this because you suggest your very new to this kind of thing and Reaktors advantage is the huge library of all sorts of wierd and wonderfull creations in it which you can pull apart, analyse, nick bits from etc and end up creating something useable.

Max is cool, no doubting but considerably more 'hardcore' IMO. Reaktor integrates very well as a VST (both effect & instrument) on my PC and is very useable. Infact the premium library(ies) are worth the asking price alone when you divide the price up between the stuff you use most.

Just MHO, but ultimately I would aim for both products. Both have there relative strengths & weaknesses but you probably have more luck getting started with Reaktor & talking things from there.

Just one thing. What exactly are you hoping to use the products for? (maybe this should have been my only comment!!!)

[shamann]

From the sounds of it, Reaktor is the way to go for you. A lot more stuff for little effort.

[funkynuts]

Reaktor gets a vote from me.

[Panda]

I think it depends on what you want to use it for. If you want to build synths and efeects, reaktor is probably the way to go. AFAIK, Max is better at communicating with external hardware, integrating video, and it's possible to build better generators than in reaktor.
I have reaktor, and my roommate has max, and i have the impression max is more flexible, but harder to get started with. That only counts for the basics though, as reaktor gets harder to learn once you move on to more complex tasks. I think that's because of the absence of a good manual, whereas max has an extensive tutorial package that covers every aspect of the program. It takes a long time to read everything and try it out, but once you've done it you know just about everything there is to know about it.

Personally i'd start with reaktor as it's more aimed at 'conventional' production- if you wanna go more exotic, get max (which is what i'm gonna do in the next few months)...

just my 2 p...

grtz

p

[jasonsantiago]

if you want to join a community that's predominantly involved in wheel re-invention and selfish patch hoarding (save a few super-creative amazing users who can do more than Reaktor can) then buy max

if you want to join a community that shares and has a virtually endless user library, get reaktor.

[cron]

That's a bit harsh jason. The reason people rarely share Max patches is because Max patches are generally of no use to anybody but their creators since they're usually built for one specific purpose. You can be guaranteed however that folk will be very open about how they have created them. I find this sort of nurturing environment in which people help others to realise their individual ideas vastly preferable to the take-take-take, make me this, make me that mentality I often see at KvR among users of some other modular suites.

Max/MSP are essentially 2 different things, though some objects are interoperable. Max can send control signals to the millisecond (useful for parameter manipulation and MIDI stuff), whereas MSP will send control signals tens of thousands of times per second (at audio rates).

Which you go for simply depends more on what you want to do. To my knowledge, Reaktor can do pretty much nothing that Max can. Granted, Reaktor and MSP do a similar job, and Reaktor will generally piss all over MSP while it's at it, but it's in NO way comparable to Max. To me, it's the Max side of Max/MSP which is the interesting, unique part. Can Reaktor even do MIDI/control of external systems stuff? You could automate your entire house using a Max patch and a soldering iron, let alone build some interesting MIDI tools with it.

[Sicklecell666]

Just depends if you wanna make music of wear a stupid-looking lab coat..

[lepwisk]

Which you go for simply depends more on what you want to do. To my knowledge, Reaktor can do pretty much nothing that Max can. Granted, Reaktor and MSP do a similar job, and Reaktor will generally piss all over MSP while it's at it, but it's in NO way comparable to Max. To me, it's the Max side of Max/MSP which is the interesting, unique part. Can Reaktor even do MIDI/control of external systems stuff? You could automate your entire house using a Max patch and a soldering iron, let alone build some interesting MIDI tools with it.

Yes, indeed. Cron, you seem to grasp the full potential of Max/MSP. While Max was initially created as a MIDI control app intended for music use, most of my recent experience has seen it used primarily in interactive control systems for installation art. In this sense, it's really, REALLY powerful. A friend of mine who teaches Max workshops generally answers the question "Can you do this with Max?" with the answer "Yes, you just have to figure out how to do it." The MSP side of things (where most of the audio processing functionality lies) is generally an add-on to the external device control aspect. Mind you, this stuff often requires a knowledge of PIC chip or BASIC Stamp programming and MIDI-to-serial communication. Given this, you are dead on in your assesment that Max patches are highly task specific, and this of little use (other than conceptually) to people other than their author.

Thus If music or sound synthesis is your primary interest, Reaktor is a much better platform.

In any case, if your interested in Max/MSP but don't want to shell out the bucks, you can always try PureData (http://www.puredata.info/), a comparable open-source platform coded by the guy that initially wrote Max, Miller Puckette.

Cheers, Lewis

[soma]

Ok this might now be so helpful but I absolutely LOVE Reaktor!! I haven't really tried Max (it looks good) but I am so content that I don't even think of other similar applications (except that I do occasionaly want to share my work with people who don't own reaktor).

[dreammaka]

I use both.

with reaktor you hav huge libraries, and easier to start making synth and FX.

for me when it gets complex reaktor and max/msp is both hard.

I just recently started to build synth in max/msp while it is really powerful
it's doesn't give you basic macro(reaktor term) like Envelope, filter with mod paremeters etc.
so you basically have to build everything from scratch. there is external objects on internet
but it's is not something like reaktor's macro.

so my suggest you get a reaktor first. then when you get it right then
move on the max/msp.

max/msp can do many thing that Reaktor can not do.
it can build simple programs too, such as unit convertor, simple calculater,
midi patch bay and etc. you can then make it stand alone program and give it to
your friend. they don't have to have max/msp unlike Reaktor if you want to share something
the other person also need to have Reaktor or Reaktor session.

[doogs]

I'd suggest getting your hands on purdedata. It is sort of a free max/msp clone. It will do most of the low level things like max but some of the GUI stuff is not so elegant. It would give you a good oppurtunity to get a look at how things are done in max. If you like the way it works then get max/msp.

[Caleb]

Thanks for that doogs. That led me to an interesting book being created pased on pd. Might be good way of learning DSP theory etc...

Caleb

[g3n3r4t0r]

For me its Reaktor, because its an audioLab,where you can easily choose a level of your input knowledge, from where you can go further as far as you want,now with the "core" sublevel.

[idobs]

For me, Reaktor wins for nostalgia... Reaktor reminds me of a program I used to play with on my Apple II+ as a kid: I think it was called "Robot Odyssey."


I actually like playing with Reaktor's "eventing" rather than audio-manipulation, it's fun to see what kind of things you can program in a visual-environment like Reaktor.


-Ido