PDC is plug-in delay compensation.
Some plugins cause latency on a track, and so put it out of time with the other tracks. PDC compensates for this across the whole mix, ensuring that the tracks are in time with each other.
FL Studio 6 Mixer...
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
that's not true, I believe it was gol himself last year that started a thread asking what people thought about freeze...it wasn't exactly a small thread either...headquest wrote:You're kidding! GIven the CPU of Sytrus alone, I'm amazed if nobody has asked for Freeze!Jaeson Merrill wrote:well, gol doesnt want to include it because no one asks for it.
lol
hopefully in version 6, or hell only have older customers methinks..
Oh well... if version 6 does have freeze, I may well bite. If not, ... well, I can't imagine FL gaining many new customers, as you say.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Ah right, so do you think we may see it in version 6 then, Hink?
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I have absolutely no idea...but there was a thread about it. My feelings on it are mixed, rendering works anyhow. I have never used freeze, but AA does have "Lock" which is probably the same thing. One negative about it, and I've been led to believe this is true about freeze too, is that the more tracks you lock the longer it takes to open a project, as it has to refreeze each time. save the rendering doesn't have to rerender each time...but I really haven't been to FL forums in ages so this was the first I saw of the mixer.headquest wrote:Ah right, so do you think we may see it in version 6 then, Hink?
FWIW I think if freeze is the only thing holding you back I would like to suggest you rethink your decision. You could very well find yourself warming up (pun intended) to FL and all it's other great benefits. Even if it doesn't have freeze now it might later, or perhaps something better (you never know), why not get a jump on the learning curve now...
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Tucson Arizona USA
Whenever this topic comes up, it's either a showstopper for people, or else, they don't see the need.headquest wrote:PDC is plug-in delay compensation.
Some plugins cause latency on a track, and so put it out of time with the other tracks. PDC compensates for this across the whole mix, ensuring that the tracks are in time with each other.
I'm in the latter group, since I don't really want to use anything that doesn't work live -- and PDC is all about rendering, right? I'm not interested in instruments, fx, or mixers that aren't useful primarily for playing live. That means, I need low-latency in the first place, and no amount of "compensation" is going to be useful in that context.
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- KVRian
- 1202 posts since 8 May, 2003 from Munich
PDC is about delaying all parallel audio streams to the slowest one. Say you use a limiter with look-ahead. No problem when you use it on the master bus. But when you use it on a channel, that channel will have a delay of X samples compared to all other channels. Usually X is in the thousands, say 1k-4k samples.
All DSP cards have a built in delay in that area on the plugins running on them. When you quantize your midi track and don't know why the heck poco virus doesn't get the timing 100% with fast attacks, your host doesn't compensate for the virus'es latency.
There is a whole lot of plugins out there that have delays on them. In SX for example you see the plugin delay in samples listed in the plugin information list.
Not having PDC has become a real downside recently (also in eXT which is what I'm using, stopped using FL a while ago, not because of the program though, its a top product for certain tasks). CPU horsepower is quite cheap and abundantly available, so what'd stop anyone from using a limiter like the L2 or the UAD precision limiter on a drum bus, which is useful for a whole range of electronic styles to make the drums sound a lot tighter? Problem is, without PDC your drums won't sit exactly right anymore, quite probably the tune won't groove anymore because the drums come in too late compared to the rest of the tune to feel right.
Therefore PDC is extremely useful, you can just forget about delay issues and just use whatever plugin you fancy as a track insert. With DSP cards PDC is *vital* because every single DSP card based effect introduces a delay.
Markus
All DSP cards have a built in delay in that area on the plugins running on them. When you quantize your midi track and don't know why the heck poco virus doesn't get the timing 100% with fast attacks, your host doesn't compensate for the virus'es latency.
There is a whole lot of plugins out there that have delays on them. In SX for example you see the plugin delay in samples listed in the plugin information list.
Not having PDC has become a real downside recently (also in eXT which is what I'm using, stopped using FL a while ago, not because of the program though, its a top product for certain tasks). CPU horsepower is quite cheap and abundantly available, so what'd stop anyone from using a limiter like the L2 or the UAD precision limiter on a drum bus, which is useful for a whole range of electronic styles to make the drums sound a lot tighter? Problem is, without PDC your drums won't sit exactly right anymore, quite probably the tune won't groove anymore because the drums come in too late compared to the rest of the tune to feel right.
Therefore PDC is extremely useful, you can just forget about delay issues and just use whatever plugin you fancy as a track insert. With DSP cards PDC is *vital* because every single DSP card based effect introduces a delay.
Markus
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- KVRAF
- 4222 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Tucson Arizona USA
You're speaking on the order of ten milliseconds, right?xRAVENx wrote: quite probably the tune won't groove anymore because the drums come in too late compared to the rest of the tune to feel right.
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Ten milliseconds is plenty to make your drums sound slightly out of timejames0tucson wrote:You're speaking on the order of ten milliseconds, right?xRAVENx wrote: quite probably the tune won't groove anymore because the drums come in too late compared to the rest of the tune to feel right.
Some plugs have a latency bigger than 10 milliseconds though.
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- KVRian
- 1202 posts since 8 May, 2003 from Munich
There actually is a very clear difference between playing a vsti with 3ms vs 12ms via a midi keyboard. For drums thats quite a big deal.
Take a premade drumloop that grooves well in e.g. stylus RMX, drag the midi data to a midi track and delay certain parts of it, like the hihats or the snare by 10ms, or move them 10ms ahead of the rest so they come 10ms early. You'll hear what I mean.
Markus
Take a premade drumloop that grooves well in e.g. stylus RMX, drag the midi data to a midi track and delay certain parts of it, like the hihats or the snare by 10ms, or move them 10ms ahead of the rest so they come 10ms early. You'll hear what I mean.
Markus
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Jaeson Merrill Jaeson Merrill https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29081
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from nowhere you believe in
there is a huge diff between 10 and 20 ms, or lower than that even, like 1 or 5 when it comes to phase as well.
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Jaeson Merrill Jaeson Merrill https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29081
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from nowhere you believe in
hink, honestly now..Hink wrote:that's not true, I believe it was gol himself last year that started a thread asking what people thought about freeze...it wasn't exactly a small thread either...headquest wrote:You're kidding! GIven the CPU of Sytrus alone, I'm amazed if nobody has asked for Freeze!Jaeson Merrill wrote:well, gol doesnt want to include it because no one asks for it.
lol
hopefully in version 6, or hell only have older customers methinks..
Oh well... if version 6 does have freeze, I may well bite. If not, ... well, I can't imagine FL gaining many new customers, as you say.
did you see gols replies in that thread?
or are you just counting the posts
cause he still seems to be ignorant of the fact that many people need these features.
I love FL
its the best, but its a bit frustrating when these features arent present.
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Jaeson Merrill Jaeson Merrill https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29081
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from nowhere you believe in
hehe, and you gave it to me, rememberxRAVENx wrote:
(also in eXT which is what I'm using, stopped using FL a while ago, not because of the program though, its a top product for certain tasks)
still thanking you for that one everytime i hear the startup noise
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- KVRist
- 352 posts since 8 Jul, 2003
What's the hype with that mixer? Looks very uncomfortable and unconvinient to work with. Can you see the EQ settings of different channels at the same time? And what's with that vertical text? You guys must have your necks broken after few hour session.
jouni - www.markvera.net - Stardrive Studio - Orionology
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
yes I did see the posts, that's my point...you said no one asks, but it appears too me that many people have asked, gol just hasn't answered..I won't question his reasoning, I couldn't...but it has been asked for...Jaeson Merrill wrote:hink, honestly now..Hink wrote:that's not true, I believe it was gol himself last year that started a thread asking what people thought about freeze...it wasn't exactly a small thread either...headquest wrote:You're kidding! GIven the CPU of Sytrus alone, I'm amazed if nobody has asked for Freeze!Jaeson Merrill wrote:well, gol doesnt want to include it because no one asks for it.
lol
hopefully in version 6, or hell only have older customers methinks..
Oh well... if version 6 does have freeze, I may well bite. If not, ... well, I can't imagine FL gaining many new customers, as you say.
did you see gols replies in that thread?
or are you just counting the posts
cause he still seems to be ignorant of the fact that many people need these features.
I love FL
its the best, but its a bit frustrating when these features arent present.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
of course I now think you we're being sarcastic, kinda ironic..me not seeing the sarcasm..
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.