Why don't you like rap/hiphop ?

[Jace-BeOS]

Music is always a product. it is silly to believe otherwise. it is just that you want to go to an opposite extreme from where we are now.

No, it's not always product. Unless someone makes it to sell it. Then it's clearly product. Nothing wrong with either.

why not the middle?

Because human beings are bad bad bad at moderation. It takes more thought and attention than people want to exercise. So they go for extremes because you have a clear path and less decisions to make.

[reprznt]

Hip-Hop should be taken in the proper context. I live in the Ghettos of the South Bronx. I feel that Hip-Hop is integral to my lifestyle. In my building, on my block, everything is linked to "Hip-Hop Culture". My block has Graffitti and drug dealers every 10 feet. And while u experience this lifestyle, all u hear is the newest Mixtapes being played out of all the Bodegas and Sneaker Stores. Therefore, Hip-Hop is an extension of my lifestyle and it is therefore appropriate given the urban context. Now, I think the violence is awful. But at the same time, it reflects the reality of inner city ghettos. At the same time. It makes me crazy to see wealthy white suburban kids embrace this hip-hop music and try to pretend they have a hardness about them. Hip-Hop is not glorious. Seeing drug dealers and murders on my block is not gloriouis. Someone got murdered outside my building last night. U should have heard all the gunshots. That is what hip-hop is about. Drugs, Guns, Women with Booty, 22 inch rims, bling bling, etc... Hate Hip-Hop if u want. That is cool. But I am just here to say that atleast it keeps it real. 50 cent shot his movie on my block last week (Get Rich or Die Trying) and all his people were the most ghetto and ruthless people I have ever seen. But at the same time, they had more diamonds than I have ever seen in my neighborhood. I am rambling. But my point is that Hip-Hop is for the streets. People who do not live on the streets can have all the opinion they want. Hate it or love it, Hip-Hop is the most authentic music to todays urban wastelands. At the same time, I wish Hip-Hop would stay in the streets. It is not a positive music for young and encouragable kids to be listening to. Ok. So my point is that I love Hip-Hop, but I fully acknowledge that is not for everyone and cannot expect someone who does not live the life, to really appreciate the realities of the music. I am going in the studio with Diplomats next week (i am more of a spectator).... wish me and my friends luck.

[sposey1969]

I know I can read it all and see and I can figure it out for myself, but... wow this thread degenerated.

Hmmmmmmm, I don't know if this has been said yet in this thread, but please don't lump the Southern U.S. Americans into the 3k world. I think you'll find that if you visit the southeastern United States in these days you won't find many 3k supporters around here.

Depends on the area, the age and the way you were brought up. Variables that certainly lead to racist bastards in my Northeast area or anywhere else. No, southerners aren't all racist. There is a large number of conservative voting going on there, though. That much is demonstrated by polls and actual vote counts. Conservative does, unfortunately, tie in to such things as limiting the rights of women and minorities (which is a funny word to describe non-caucasians when you're the minority as a caucasian or when you hate being forced into the caucasian "genre" on forms that do not include Italian-American, German-American, Japanese-American along with African American and Hispanic).

Most of us civilized southerners recognize that we are not superior to anyone else; in fact, many of us feel that we owe a great debt to those that our ancestors thought were inferior to us.

You are an enlightened person then. I note that you said "civilized." Thanks for making that point. I have a friend in Ohio. She describes it as living in uncivilized, uncultured, ignorant, racist HELL. That's pretty north. Ignorance knows no borders and knows no ethnicities.

I also wish to point out that posthumous recognition is almost as bad as no recognition. "Many" is a small number when compared to entire populations. It seems to me that most of the south voted Bush to be our King and he has clearly demonstrated what he thinks of equality. Like many Republicans, he seems to think that equality comes through pulling yourself up by your bootstraps... except for those who had everything handed to them by their families... like him... families that built their wealth on things that are now illegal, were illegal at the time, or should be illegal.

Personally, I feel that it is the northern stereotype that has helped perpetuate the myth that southern whites hate southern blacks.

I will readily admit to that being true, as a northerner. For me, it comes from EXPERIENCE. I am shamed to be related to someone from the south who has made blatently racist comments out in the open (I had to leave the room so that I didn't throw things at her ignorant old bitch face). I'm not ashamed of her being from the south. What I'm ashamed of is that she's related to me and that goddamned ignorant.

Nothing could be farther than the truth. I don't belittle our northern Americans, but I wish that folks would find out for themselves how the truth really is, rather than follow the "conventional wisdom" concerning what they believe to be true.

When I was in Ohio for WalterCon, I saw that there were no caucasians doing service jobs. In fact, my Canadian friend pointed it out, telling me that the racism in our country was blatent and gross. The service people were all very nice, but it was clear that there was a sharp class division going on that was heavily focused on race.

I will be visiting Nashville TN in September. I will be exposed to the south firsthand. I, sadly, expect similar things. Sharp divisions. Exclusivities.

Yes, there are 3k supporters, but they are few and far between.

Been reading up on Ohio lately? There are KKK scum walking around in broad daylight and there has been violence and the usual should-be-laughable-if-weren't-so-evil racist behavior. My friend has it in her town, even.

Humanity is far more important to me than the color of someone's skin. As someone born and raised in Columbia, South Carolina, I will admit that there are many misguided souls out there, but there are so many more of us that welcome the racial diversity that comes from living on our blue planet.

You are clearly civilized, educated, rational and kind. I am happy to know of your existance! Cheers to you and those like you! You planning on reproducing?

Thanks for your kind words. And yes, my wife & I have reproduced -- 3 times! As far as Ohio goes... that's not the south, unless I'm mistaken on where the Mason-Dixon line is. I have no experience with that area of the country, and it's disheartening to hear of your experiences there. I can only hope that things will get better there.

I sincerely hope your visit to Nashville will be better than you anticipate.

[P.T.]

Hip-Hop should be taken in the proper context. I live in the Ghettos of the South Bronx. I feel that Hip-Hop is integral to my lifestyle. In my building, on my block, everything is linked to "Hip-Hop Culture". My block has Graffitti and drug dealers every 10 feet. And while u experience this lifestyle, all u hear is the newest Mixtapes being played out of all the Bodegas and Sneaker Stores. Therefore, Hip-Hop is an extension of my lifestyle and it is therefore appropriate given the urban context. Now, I think the violence is awful. But at the same time, it reflects the reality of inner city ghettos. At the same time. It makes me crazy to see wealthy white suburban kids embrace this hip-hop music and try to pretend they have a hardness about them. Hip-Hop is not glorious. Seeing drug dealers and murders on my block is not gloriouis. Someone got murdered outside my building last night. U should have heard all the gunshots. That is what hip-hop is about. Drugs, Guns, Women with Booty, 22 inch rims, bling bling, etc... Hate Hip-Hop if u want. That is cool. But I am just here to say that atleast it keeps it real. 50 cent shot his movie on my block last week (Get Rich or Die Trying) and all his people were the most ghetto and ruthless people I have ever seen. But at the same time, they had more diamonds than I have ever seen in my neighborhood. I am rambling. But my point is that Hip-Hop is for the streets. People who do not live on the streets can have all the opinion they want. Hate it or love it, Hip-Hop is the most authentic music to todays urban wastelands. At the same time, I wish Hip-Hop would stay in the streets. It is not a positive music for young and encouragable kids to be listening to. Ok. So my point is that I love Hip-Hop, but I fully acknowledge that is not for everyone and cannot expect someone who does not live the life, to really appreciate the realities of the music. I am going in the studio with Diplomats next week (i am more of a spectator).... wish me and my friends luck.

So, A violent, hopeless lifestyle has a soundtrack to help sustain and validate it.

The media has a lot to answer for by filling the world with this. I suppose they think they are being "diverse" and somehow helping in some perverse manner.

[james0tucson]

Music is always a product.

FAR more music is played purely for enjoyment or artistic expression, than is ever played with any mind for profit.

I'm sure *your* music is always "a product". Not every artist is motivated by money, commerce, etc. In fact, it's relatively uncommon -- it's just that the barriers to entry to the commercial world are so high that's you tend to be absolultely in it, or absolutely outside of it.

[clueless]

*applause*

[clueless]

"music is always a product" my arse.

how many people make music because they buy into the music industry "dream" and how many make music, pissed out of their brains with their friends in the kitchen at 4am for the pure f**king joy of making music?

I've done both, incidentally, and the latter was a lot more satisfying

[bermudagold]

I hear u Jace.....i wasn't implying if u dont like it ur RACIST....i just think lots of people are obviously blind to their own PREJUDICES....important delineation in terms.....otherwise all the central arguments i've heard so far on why they dont like it besides "personal taste", just dont seem to hold water without exposing double standards and hippocrisy....and dont explain the disproportionate disdain......and even personal taste seems like a bit of an ambiguous cop out, as any personal taste is surely based on some underlying tangible reason......all in all, I tend to feel the same as you on things that are intrinsically divisive....but after all, that is however the nature of man....there is something in human nature that wants to feel a part of a group and share in that groups common identity of being somehow special or different....the history of human civilization has proven this repeatedly as even when we have many things in common....race,ethnicity,language,....whatever....we still find a way to split into groups over some delineation and look down on each other.....a sad aspect of human nature and one man's uglier innate instincts