What are people charging for GUI Design (and other gfx)

[Dr. Feelgood]

im trying to do a little market research here. Nothing official just something that might help me make some personal carreer choices.

What do graphic designers usually charge for designing a GUI for a plugin? Im interested in hearing about small shareware projects as well as for the bigger boys.

any designers or devs with an idea?

[Shane Sanders]

Take it from a graphic designer who has been paying rent with pixels for about a decade: run as far away from working in the graphics field as possible unless you just can't imagine doing something else. Me, I'm stuck here unless one of my other creative outlets takes off.

Why does it suck? Because the field is overrun with hacks who wouldn't know the golden mean if it was spiralling up their bums. There are just too many kids out there now with cracked photoshop/illustrator who will do work for next to nothing, leaving realistic budgeting out the window for pros. Being a freelance graphic designer is like trying to be a movie star these days. Everybody wants to do it because it looks cool, but the reality is much different. People always try to milk you for one more thing. We poor designers are like puppets, photoshop-monkies, who are often reduced to a role that is so far removed from the conceptual process (where a real designer ought to be included) that it robs you of any semblance of work related joy or "flow".

oh, did I just say that out loud.

[Dr. Feelgood]

thanks Shane, I appreciate your honesty . I already do have quite a bit of experience in various areas of graphic design but not really any paid work. I have no dreams of glamour or easy money, but I think it may be too late for me to turn to other careers.

Shane, have you any personal experience with freelance gui design for any plugins?

I have potential contacts for gui and webdesign jobs but Im trying to figure out what to charge for these things. So....What is the common price for a GUI design job in the audio plugin business.

[dystonia_ek]

Take it from a graphic designer who has been paying rent with pixels for about a decade: run as far away from working in the graphics field as possible unless you just can't imagine doing something else. Me, I'm stuck here unless one of my other creative outlets takes off.

Why does it suck? Because the field is overrun with hacks who wouldn't know the golden mean if it was spiralling up their bums. There are just too many kids out there now with cracked photoshop/illustrator who will do work for next to nothing, leaving realistic budgeting out the window for pros. Being a freelance graphic designer is like trying to be a movie star these days. Everybody wants to do it because it looks cool, but the reality is much different. People always try to milk you for one more thing. We poor designers are like puppets, photoshop-monkies, who are often reduced to a role that is so far removed from the conceptual process (where a real designer ought to be included) that it robs you of any semblance of work related joy or "flow".

oh, did I just say that out loud.

I feel your pain - I was in the same boat for a few years. I don't freelance anymore, been working in-house for the same company for four years now. I can't say I really enjoy it that much at this point.

[Shane Sanders]

thanks Shane, I appreciate your honesty . I already do have quite a bit of experience in various areas of graphic design but not really any paid work. I have no dreams of glamour or easy money, but I think it may be too late for me to turn to other careers.

Shane, have you any personal experience with freelance gui design for any plugins?

I have potential contacts for gui and webdesign jobs but Im trying to figure out what to charge for these things. So....What is the common price for a GUI design job in the audio plugin business.

Well, I've made many GUIs over the years, but none for an actual audio product. I did make some really nice knobs and buttons for one of the mods over on the Reaktor forum. Like many projects, that just died for reasons out of my control. Also, I started designing a drum machine/sequencer just for myself at one point.

As for money, depending on what region you're in, I think $25 an hour is about as low as I would go, and I would only go that low if I knew there weren't going to be a lot of hidden hours wasted chasing down assets or in "meetings". I like to charge between $35-75 an hour but in my experience, most people get sticker shock even with those reasonable rates. Like I said before, there is the illusion that it's magic and that it should be so much fun that you'll want to spend your time for free (or next to nothing).

I think in this market, it's better to work for a firm that does more business to business work. That's what I do now. We charge high rates per employee, but we also back up our work. When a multi-million dollar client (as most of ours are) comes to us, they are buying not just the work but the workflow: a project manager contact, an account rep, a design team, kick off meetings in swank rooms, etc. And in the end, they get what they wanted. Most businesses of that caliber have learned that though the guy in his bedroom is talented and capable of many things, he'll end up over promising on the work and not have the ability to manage all the streams of information that are necessary in the types of business campaigns that we support. They just can't take the risk that a small shop will drop the ball and leave them with a missed deadline. Too much is at stake.

But I suppose if you avoid web graphics and try to steer yourself toward print, you might be able to find steady work. But I'll bet it'll be a larger agency that feeds you the steady work rather than a sole-proprieter-to-business type relationship. It's hard to describe how the dynamic seems to unfold, but I just haven't seen the opportunity for a freelancer in a while (at least where I'm at).

[Shane Sanders]

I should also mention that if you are a split-brained coder/designer who can actually "design" (not to be confused with the dudes who can make crap swirl around the screen and blink incessantly), then you can probably find steady work using Macromedia Flash. If you can also do PHP/ColdFusion and database work, then you're golden.

I used to work with this guy. He's great at both and makes a tight living. Check each and every one of his portfolio pieces to get an idea of what you are up against. There are lots of people just like him, all of whom suck up all the work. Sorry to be such a grim dude. lol

http://www.b7ven.com

[Shane Sanders]

I feel your pain - I was in the same boat for a few years. I don't freelance anymore, been working in-house for the same company for four years now. I can't say I really enjoy it that much at this point.

It does lose its lustre! Especially after you've explained for the fourth time in a year to a co-worker who is "above" you that just because a 100 pixel wide .gif was saved as an EPS, it still isn't going to scale seamlessly up to print resolution. I love that one. lol

[jmh]

Been freelancing for the last couple of years. All I can say is echoing Shane's sentiments. Too many "graphic designers" offering to do the same with ridiculous rates and no knowledge of anything related around for any sort of semi/full professional charges to sound reasonable to customers...

And customers are getting tougher every day. Just took on an assignment that was supposed to be a simple business card project, announced my rates accordingly... Only to receive the necessary information which happens to include such small details as "new brandmark/sign and logotype" - do they really think I'm desperate enough for the money to let things like this slip through

As for this GUI stuff... it would be interesting indeed to hear what kind of prices are typically paid. I know of a few cases but can't really share any details other than from where I'm standing (web design, occasional print jobs, a logo here and there, UI consultancy to a couple of projects etc.) doing GUIs sounds like a lucrative thing as long as the developer is realistic and sensible about things - what ever you're going to do, make sure there are written agreements where all necessary details are cleary spelled out. Nothing like receiving complaints about things you haven't even agreed to follow or have not been informed about...

Regards,

JMH

[AndrewSimon]

OK I don't know anything in this field but check out this kid:

http://www.eigelb.at/HP/Links/SpecialEf ... index.html

more here:

http://www.eigelb.at

[dekky]

i share thoughts and feelings with dystonia.
having the same agency job for years now, which sometimes (maybe even most of the time) leaves you frustrated and fed up with the crappo you have to deal with almost evry day, but it pays my rent, the pasta and sometimes a new toy ontop.

always was too much of a milquetoast to go freelance, but we will see

[jmh]

Going freelance after some years in an agency is a viable choice, if you're able to utilize the contacts from your previous job...

Too bad my previous employers had such high caliber clients that their projects weren't exactly for freelancers (though sometimes there can be surprises, we're in the middle of negotiations with such a client here that once the deal is done and made public, it'll be the biggest surprise in this field in this country since the first 'new media' agencies were born here)

Regards,

JMH

[dekky]

Going freelance after some years in an agency is a viable choice, if you're able to utilize the contacts from your previous job...

the clients would be too boring for my taste

[dystonia_ek]

I feel your pain - I was in the same boat for a few years. I don't freelance anymore, been working in-house for the same company for four years now. I can't say I really enjoy it that much at this point.

It does lose its lustre! Especially after you've explained for the fourth time in a year to a co-worker who is "above" you that just because a 100 pixel wide .gif was saved as an EPS, it still isn't going to scale seamlessly up to print resolution. I love that one. lol

True story:

Marketing exec: We need you to do a full-page ad for this film TODAY. Like, RIGHT NOW!
Me: I can probably squeeze it into my schedule. What are the specs?
Marketing exec: What?
Me: Well, for starters, page size? 4-colour, black and white, or what?
Marketing exec: I don't know about that stuff, just do something, OK? Then we'll tell you if it's OK or not.

Admittedly, this is relatively rare. Working in an industry where much of the presentation is standardised (posters, DVD sleeves etc) it tends to go smoothly most of the time. When it doesn't, it's for incredibly inane reasons though.

[Shane Sanders]

True story:

Same stuff happens here. The task sheet arrives, the clock is ticking on the due date... But the scope of the project is not set. No meetings have occured with a designer, only suits. You then have to chase down two or three other people to discern even what is desired by the client. Then the work starts prematurely, and when you finally have something for a marketing person to "see", that's when they start having "ideas" about it all. But one of my biggest complaints is how little attention is paid to the copy in the scripting process. They always want to change it all at the last minute which impacts certain types of designs in a major way. It just kills me to have to re-do things when it could have been done well the first time with a modicum of planning and foresight.

I could go on and on... lol

[wrench45us]

my spouse works freelance with graphic designers doing print production coordination (that means getting up at 2 in the morning when something goes on press) and overflow -- that means when her friends have too much work to do she gets the rest

fact is, for the past 4 years she's lucky to work more than a few days a month. business in this midwest printing center has been cut by over 50%. She's worked in small to medium ad agencies with enough psychotic art directors so that she'll only work freelance -- even if that means not working.

what opportunities do open up are trolling for desperate bottom feeders and checking on the talent level available if things happen to get busy. A lot of places have pulled what work they have back in house and keep a rolodex full of talented freelancers who'll now work for about half of what they used to.

so it's grim