HI
I don't think I will ever be able to use FL .... well at least not until gol goes LARGE on the GUI or I get that 42" plasma.
I like several others - just sit on my V4 watching the free up-dates come!
The mixer is certainly looks more usable but I just struggle with the overal 'small' graphics - I know I can bring down the screen resolution but then many plugs just will not fit on the screen!
Flipper.
FL Studio 6 Mixer...
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original flipper original flipper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8999
- KVRAF
- 2544 posts since 14 Sep, 2003 from Essex
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I'm not sure exactly what, but FL5 had improvements for using a dual monitor set up...original flipper wrote:HI
I don't think I will ever be able to use FL .... well at least not until gol goes LARGE on the GUI or I get that 42" plasma.
I like several others - just sit on my V4 watching the free up-dates come!
The mixer is certainly looks more usable but I just struggle with the overal 'small' graphics - I know I can bring down the screen resolution but then many plugs just will not fit on the screen!
Flipper.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- KVRAF
- 4223 posts since 10 Oct, 2002 from Nashville, TN USA
...xander wrote:
PM me when you want me mate!
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- KVRian
- 753 posts since 15 Mar, 2002
original flipper wrote:HI
I don't think I will ever be able to use FL .... well at least not until gol goes LARGE on the GUI or I get that 42" plasma.
I like several others - just sit on my V4 watching the free up-dates come!
The mixer is certainly looks more usable but I just struggle with the overal 'small' graphics - I know I can bring down the screen resolution but then many plugs just will not fit on the screen!
Flipper.
Then, you need glasses man !!
The gui is perfect (i recon its small though, of course).
Ive never had a problem reading it.
The fact its very compact is great for the workflow, as you can have the mixer, the pattern thing, a playlist, and the effect section on the same screen.
I used to use Cubase, but im lot more efficient/faster on FLS...A LOT more
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original flipper original flipper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8999
- KVRAF
- 2544 posts since 14 Sep, 2003 from Essex
HI
And that is why YOU use it, and I wander the Darklands in search of my elusive partner.
Flipper.
And that is why YOU use it, and I wander the Darklands in search of my elusive partner.
Flipper.
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Jaeson Merrill Jaeson Merrill https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29081
- KVRian
- 1185 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from nowhere you believe in
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tony tony chopper tony tony chopper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3103
- KVRAF
- 3561 posts since 20 Jun, 2002
Here's about PDC, freezing, and solo:
-there's always a whiner to say that I don't care of PDC or freezing. Here's my point:
PDC is useful. Not for impulse-based reverbs - I could care less about them. They add a non-neglectable latency so you'd rather avoid them. Although I wouldn't mind time-domain based one, with a zero latency at rendering time when CPU cost doesn't matter much. PDC is also not much useful for plugins that can exist with a zero latency.
PDC is useful for compressors - they only add a short latency, and they do need that lookahead. PDC is also useful for hardware-based generators, although those tend not to work with short buffers (if your generator crackles, don't expect PDC to fix this).
BUT FL offers full track routing, you can route a track to another, and then to another again, while sending to others. And FL offers internal controllers, and allows plugins to access mixer tracks directly. 'Full' PDC is LOGICALLY not possible in FL. You can get a half-working one, yes, but with some mixer or project setups it just can't work. So I'm more aiming at a 'sometimes working' PDC, and it's already very hard to achieve.
Yes I know, PDC is just 'adding a delay line to each mixer track except the offending one'. ..if it was that simple.
-Freezing. First, a lot of people want freezing because other sequencers do that, without even knowing what it does. For some it's a magical button - you press it, you have no CPU problem anymore. They just don't realize that freezing is a pain in the ass to use, it's less a pain in the ass than to deal with buffer underruns, but it's a pain in the ass to wait for minutes for a track to render. Yes I know, a 1-minute track that only eats 10% CPU will take 6 sec to render. But if it only eats 10% CPU, you don't really need freezing. And because of the reasons listed above for PDC, freezing a track will mean rendering the whole project anyway, because other mixer tracks or internal controllers can affect the output of an individual mixer track.
That said, FL already has freezing, since it's just about rendering mixer tracks. You can already get FL to render a mixer track and automatically insert it in the playlist. All that's missing is that it won't disable generators and effects for you - you have to do this manually. I know some think that completely removing the plugin from the project (to 'save ram'..) is better - it's not really, but I don't feel like debating about it.
But I just think that some consider that FL's track rendering isn't freezing because it takes too much time to render, and they do expect freezing to work another way.
I had suggested a way to freeze parts of the song and not just the whole song, maybe it'll be implemented, but: -it will STILL take time to render, obviously -it won't work perfectly, because some plugins are multiout, and can't be disabled because one of their mixer tracks was frozen.
-track solo is the same, it's linked to the problems explained above. The current FL has a solo switch, and quite often we're asked why a track is still heard while it's not the one that's soloed. Track routing doesn't make it clear what's enabled and what's not when you solo something. When you solo a track through which other tracks go, some would expect only that track to be heard, some would expect that track and all of the ones that are routed to. So right-clicking the mute switch works better than a solo switch, because it shows you what's muted and what's not. And you have 2 solo modes.
Now that I have explained this, I'm sure that it'll still be the same 'IL is too stubborn to implement PDC' or 'they showed no interest in freezing'.
-there's always a whiner to say that I don't care of PDC or freezing. Here's my point:
PDC is useful. Not for impulse-based reverbs - I could care less about them. They add a non-neglectable latency so you'd rather avoid them. Although I wouldn't mind time-domain based one, with a zero latency at rendering time when CPU cost doesn't matter much. PDC is also not much useful for plugins that can exist with a zero latency.
PDC is useful for compressors - they only add a short latency, and they do need that lookahead. PDC is also useful for hardware-based generators, although those tend not to work with short buffers (if your generator crackles, don't expect PDC to fix this).
BUT FL offers full track routing, you can route a track to another, and then to another again, while sending to others. And FL offers internal controllers, and allows plugins to access mixer tracks directly. 'Full' PDC is LOGICALLY not possible in FL. You can get a half-working one, yes, but with some mixer or project setups it just can't work. So I'm more aiming at a 'sometimes working' PDC, and it's already very hard to achieve.
Yes I know, PDC is just 'adding a delay line to each mixer track except the offending one'. ..if it was that simple.
-Freezing. First, a lot of people want freezing because other sequencers do that, without even knowing what it does. For some it's a magical button - you press it, you have no CPU problem anymore. They just don't realize that freezing is a pain in the ass to use, it's less a pain in the ass than to deal with buffer underruns, but it's a pain in the ass to wait for minutes for a track to render. Yes I know, a 1-minute track that only eats 10% CPU will take 6 sec to render. But if it only eats 10% CPU, you don't really need freezing. And because of the reasons listed above for PDC, freezing a track will mean rendering the whole project anyway, because other mixer tracks or internal controllers can affect the output of an individual mixer track.
That said, FL already has freezing, since it's just about rendering mixer tracks. You can already get FL to render a mixer track and automatically insert it in the playlist. All that's missing is that it won't disable generators and effects for you - you have to do this manually. I know some think that completely removing the plugin from the project (to 'save ram'..) is better - it's not really, but I don't feel like debating about it.
But I just think that some consider that FL's track rendering isn't freezing because it takes too much time to render, and they do expect freezing to work another way.
I had suggested a way to freeze parts of the song and not just the whole song, maybe it'll be implemented, but: -it will STILL take time to render, obviously -it won't work perfectly, because some plugins are multiout, and can't be disabled because one of their mixer tracks was frozen.
-track solo is the same, it's linked to the problems explained above. The current FL has a solo switch, and quite often we're asked why a track is still heard while it's not the one that's soloed. Track routing doesn't make it clear what's enabled and what's not when you solo something. When you solo a track through which other tracks go, some would expect only that track to be heard, some would expect that track and all of the ones that are routed to. So right-clicking the mute switch works better than a solo switch, because it shows you what's muted and what's not. And you have 2 solo modes.
Now that I have explained this, I'm sure that it'll still be the same 'IL is too stubborn to implement PDC' or 'they showed no interest in freezing'.
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- KVRian
- 759 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Fredericton NB
I think your idea of freezing segments is a very good one. Often the offending plugin is only used sporadically throughout the track, yet it's cpu toll is constant otherwise. If freezing could work in a way that would render audio clips whose start/end times would correspond to the midi data given to the plugin, I think render times would be a bit shorter and there would be less disk space wasted to silence, and fewer clicks in places where disk-streaming silence might have introduced.
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- KVRAF
- 11396 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo
This however makes no sense for the lack of PDC on the MASTER OUTPUT CHANNEL. I've asked gol since version 2.xx that he would compensate for plugin delay when RENDERING a file. Why is this important? Well, have you ever tried rendering a loop that uses Voxengo Elephant or some similar limiter at the end of the chain to make sure there are is no clipping? Most limiters have a small latency of 128 or more samples. Then try importing this loop into some other program like Live or Cubase or whatever and loop it. Guess what? There is SILENCE at the beginning of the loop (the amount of latency) but even worse, if you selected the "cut rest" to form a perfect loop, there is the same amount of samples LACKING from the END of the loop!tony tony chopper wrote: BUT FL offers full track routing, you can route a track to another, and then to another again, while sending to others. And FL offers internal controllers, and allows plugins to access mixer tracks directly. 'Full' PDC is LOGICALLY not possible in FL. You can get a half-working one, yes, but with some mixer or project setups it just can't work. So I'm more aiming at a 'sometimes working' PDC, and it's already very hard to achieve.
Yes I know, PDC is just 'adding a delay line to each mixer track except the offending one'. ..if it was that simple.
FL Studio could be the dream-come-true for sound designers that want to make loopbased sample CDs or similar as it should be easy to get perfect loops without any hassle but, alas, no.
This is simply stunningly unprofessional and I really do not understand how this has been ignored for years. My single biggest gripe with Fruity.
- bManic[/u]
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tony tony chopper tony tony chopper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3103
- KVRAF
- 3561 posts since 20 Jun, 2002
that's a little far from 'full PDC', more like 'little tiny touch of PDC'. And professional or not, I never heard anyone else but you wanting this just for rendering.This however makes no sense for the lack of PDC on the MASTER OUTPUT CHANNEL.
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- KVRAF
- 7427 posts since 19 Apr, 2002 from Utah
JMC,jeanmariecannie wrote:Actually the mixer is/can be smaller now :easymode wrote:people want a big mixer cos it looks pro ...
http://www.flstudio.com/misc/mixer_1208_400.swf
See ya,
jmc (FL Studio)
Why do requests such as Freeze and PDC fall upon deaf ears?
--Sean
P.S. Ignore. Gol responded right before my response. I don't 'like' the response, but at least I 'got' a response.
Last edited by audiojunkie on Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 759 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Fredericton NB
audiojunkie wrote:JMC,jeanmariecannie wrote:Actually the mixer is/can be smaller now :easymode wrote:people want a big mixer cos it looks pro ...
http://www.flstudio.com/misc/mixer_1208_400.swf
See ya,
jmc (FL Studio)
Why do requests such as Freeze and PDC fall upon deaf ears?
--Sean
Er.. the last few posts should have cleared that up, did you read?
