[RANT] Solo function in Cubase SX

[Sascha Franck]

The other thing is that in Logic you can have 10 different takes of a vocal or instrumental solo all routed to the same audio object (ie 10 arrange tracks all routed to one mixer audio object). You can mute 9 of them in the arrange and have the remaining one sounding. So there is not a one to one correspondence between arrange and mixer objects.

Oh yes! OH YES!
How much I'm missing that in Cubase!
If you want to do multiple takes through the same mixer channel in SX you gotta deal with those mini tracks inside a track... probably also possible with a folder or group track (I never bothered to try), but, no matter how you put it, comparing tracks (and also consolidating them into a final track) IMO is a LOT easier simply because of the option to use an object more than once.

[mojkarma]

No, I have allways been the first to point out Logic flaws (in case you're interested, do a search on Yahoo's Logic Users Group for my name). But it doesn't make much sense anymore for the PC version as it's a dead product, something SX isn't.

However, as far as muting goes, I have to admit that sometimes the Logic approach *might* get in your way - for instance, there's no keycommand for the mixer based mute/solo functions, unless you're using the trackmixer (which I never do), you may also end up with a track not playing because you simply don't realize it's muted in the "other place", but in general the solo/mute functions are working pretty flawless, and they certainly don't cause highly illogical behaviour such as the Cubase equivalents, which are partially rendering screensets useless (I'll elaborate on that later on, it seems to be so much f**ked up it's hard to believe).

I don't know if what you have observed is a bad design or a specific problem that appears in your system.
However, you cannot talk about flawless function if I have to jump from one screenset to the other just to check out what is muted/soloed and where.

The other thing is that in Logic you can have 10 different takes of a vocal or instrumental solo all routed to the same audio object (ie 10 arrange tracks all routed to one mixer audio object). You can mute 9 of them in the arrange and have the remaining one sounding. So there is not a one to one correspondence between arrange and mixer objects.

You can do the same in cubase by using stacked recording and showing multiple lanes in one track. Only the active lane is played (soloed). Other parts are muted. It works wonderfull for me.

Oh yes! OH YES!
How much I'm missing that in Cubase!
If you want to do multiple takes through the same mixer channel in SX you gotta deal with those mini tracks inside a track... probably also possible with a folder or group track (I never bothered to try), but, no matter how you put it, comparing tracks (and also consolidating them into a final track) IMO is a LOT easier simply because of the option to use an object more than once.

There is not a single difference compared to logic. It works great in cubase and you don't need to create new tracks like in logic and to delete them later when you have combined the different takes. together.

[stag]

Ho i see, Logic behaves like that because of sends, that´s what i´m saying about SX from the beggining, I can´t see any bug there or here too... IMO.

[fritzman]

...
I think SX3 is an outdated app still, ...

Bye

Hi stag,

<OT-OffRant> man, do I feel outdated as a N2 user ...
Seriously. Which host is top notch, on PC, not full of incompatibilities with lotsa VSTs and VSTis as I read over and over about Tracktion, has cool offline rendering, and all the other cool stuff (whateverthatis)? </OT-OffRant>


Thanx a lot, FRitz

[egbert]

The other thing is that in Logic you can have 10 different takes of a vocal or instrumental solo all routed to the same audio object (ie 10 arrange tracks all routed to one mixer audio object). You can mute 9 of them in the arrange and have the remaining one sounding. So there is not a one to one correspondence between arrange and mixer objects.

You can do the same in cubase by using stacked recording and showing multiple lanes in one track. Only the active lane is played (soloed). Other parts are muted. It works wonderfull for me.

You don't seem to be getting my point here. The reason I talked about the fact that there is not a one to one correspondence between tracks and audio objects is to point out that your assumption that the solo status of the mixer should match that of the arrange is based on a misunderstanding of the signal routing.

[stag]

...
I think SX3 is an outdated app still, ...

Bye

Hi stag,

<OT-OffRant> man, do I feel outdated as a N2 user ...
Seriously. Which host is top notch, on PC, not full of incompatibilities with lotsa VSTs and VSTis as I read over and over about Tracktion, has cool offline rendering, and all the other cool stuff (whateverthatis)? </OT-OffRant>

Thanx a lot, FRitz

Hi Fritz:
For short i´m ready for SX4.

I´m a very happy SX3 user, the new update was a big leap forwards.
Very simple features, apparently, like saving channel strip as a preset is IMO, a very powerfull hint of what SX4 could be in terms of sheer productivity.

I did not like Audio Warp on SX3 i thing other apps got that a lot better but then, they are not as good as sequencers, if i needed that i would bougth them...but now, i just wonder, if ST didn´t get Freeze rigth at first time they did good second time, pobably at the second round of Audio Warp they are going to do it rigth.
...Hitpoints :yuk: i´d better find them myself.

Oh yeah!!! offline processing, the line that draws (whateverthatis).

Bye

[mojkarma]

Yes, I understand the signalrouting perfectly (it this can be said at all) and the fact that the number of tracks in the arrange and in the (environment)mixer doesn't need to be 1:1 (the example you have given above).
I wanted to say that your example is also producable in cubase in another way without that problem that you don't know what is muted or not. I mean, I see a "logic" behind that logic, but I'm a musician. I want to make music and not jump all over logic to find what is where muted.
Also, while this is ranting topic: Midi channel strips doesn't have a solo/mute button at all in logic! WTF! I have to jump between different screensets not only because of the mute function, but also to solo/mute a midi channel (driving my external synth).

[Cryogenic]

Yeah yeah!! lol lol rotfl!!!!one

Whew! That showed him. That must be what you meant by...

But keep coming if you want, you wont win.
[/quote]

Hey, asshat. You didn't understand that was directed at you? Oh k...
You're so fukken sad, and obvious, this is no match at all.

I'm done with you. But please do grace us, with a last, good, clever comeback. This thread sure needs you, as you need a life.

[n-04:05:03:05:7]

Greetings Sascha Franck,

While I appreciate your "fights" with Steinberg to improve a software that I use daily and like, I don't exactly understand why you're still using it. Why not getting a G5 with Logic?

My understanding is that you are working with Logic PC since years (decade?) and you can't stand SX which is IMO extremly different and certainly not suited to you. Why bother in this case? Steinberg won't listen to your requests I'm affraid...

cheers.

[Sascha Franck]

Also, while this is ranting topic: Midi channel strips doesn't have a solo/mute button at all in logic! WTF!

You should stay away from rants in case you don't know what you're talking about. Each MIDI channel strip has it's own Mute button, and as soon as you select it in the track mixer, pressing S will solo it just fine.
Admittedly, the lack of a true solo button is weird, I never happened to understand that either.

[fritzman]

Well,

I've got used to the (not top notch) Soloing in Nuendo/SX but what buggers me the most is that you can't rearrange Group channels. I do use them as audio groups AND as Send-FX channels and I had it SOOOOOOO often that I wanted several more audio groups BEFORE my FX groups or to rearrange the delay group in front of the reverb group (so that I could send the delay into the rev) and such. This is really annoying as it is right now.
Getting this and a few other things right would make me want N4.


Best wishes, FRitz

[egbert]

I have to jump between different screensets not only because of the mute function, but also to solo/mute a midi channel (driving my external synth).

What are you lazy or something?

In an analog studio with a bunch of rack gear and a big console and patch bays etc you have to physically move your head and body around to look at the status of various meters and leds etc. You also have to dick around with wiring to patch in compressors etc.

With a digital studio, most of it is inside your DAW and if you have sufficient monitor space you can display different things simultaneously. I run dual monitors and my main screenset consists of mixer and arrange in both Logic and SX. I can see what is going on in both all the time if I wish to.

If you are on a laptop or something and need to press a single key to swap screensets to check the status of something - what exactly is the problem? You may as well complain that the program doesn't write the song for you too - that would be the harder bit wouldn't it?

[Sascha Franck]

While I appreciate your "fights" with Steinberg to improve a software that I use daily and like, I don't exactly understand why you're still using it. Why not getting a G5 with Logic?

I will, one day.
And as for me using SX, I have to. I'm teaching computer music classes at the local conservatory and have to use SX there, as the machines are PCs.

My understanding is that you are working with Logic PC since years (decade?) and you can't stand SX which is IMO extremly different and certainly not suited to you. Why bother in this case? Steinberg won't listen to your requests I'm affraid...

I've sorta grown up sequencing with Cubase, so I do understand the paradigms behind it, just that, after getting familiar with Logic, those paradigms became highly questionable for me.

However, I do thing that Steinberg is allready listening (at least partially). You may wonder, but I'm running the german Yahoo Cubase list, and there's some Steinberg employees watching the list. Of course they are informed about my complaints, and a few things I've been complaining about have indeed be adressed in SX 3 and now 3.1 (such as relative snap, which is a godsend) - whether they've been adressed due to my complaints is questionable, most likely I'm just another voice raising them...

[mojkarma]

Also, while this is ranting topic: Midi channel strips doesn't have a solo/mute button at all in logic! WTF!

You should stay away from rants in case you don't know what you're talking about. Each MIDI channel strip has it's own Mute button, and as soon as you select it in the track mixer, pressing S will solo it just fine.
Admittedly, the lack of a true solo button is weird, I never happened to understand that either.

I'm not in front of Logic (remember: pro7) right now, but selecting the midichannelstrip in the trackmixer doesn't make any solo or mute button appering. What are you talking about?
Sorry, you started the ranting.
So, I can solo a midichannel, but instead of searching for a button in the trackmixer, I have to know that I have to use a keyboard shortcut! I guess there is no way to tell you that some things are really far from perfect in logic either.

Just to make myself clear: I ment the midichannelstrip in the trackmixer, not in the arrange. So, I hope that I'm know qualified for ranting.

[Sascha Franck]

Just to make myself clear: I ment the midichannelstrip in the trackmixer, not in the arrange. So, I hope that I'm know qualified for ranting.

Well, as said, there's a mute button in the trackmixer. I'd be astonished if they took it away in V7 (which I'm not using, at the conservatory V6 is what we use). It has allways been there until V6.
In addition, I allready said so, the absence of a solo button is pretty much funny, and believe me, it's been one of my bug reports back when I was testing for Emagic...