Distressor and Fatso - is there a sw like this?

[JonnySun 2.0]

i have a fatso and it's truly great.
i record everything through it. especially guitars with podxt sound miles better through it. even without compressing the signal it gets more organic and alive...i dont want to say "warm".
it's also great to remove harsh frequencies from digital synths and the compressor modes are very versatile.
fatso is mad expensive but i haven't regret the purchase yet.

Please could you upload a short audio-example which shows the ability to make harsh highs more softener?

That would be cool
Maybe with a harsh sounding cabasa or a opened 909 highhat.

[JonnySun 2.0]

To the Thread-Opener: Maybe this one is also a possibility (haven't tested it till yet; i don't think there exists a distribution for it at the moment)

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... ruper+neve

(Scroll down a little, search for ma post)

[jmh]

Yeah, another thing we missed as it was a rush job on ProTools - even though levels were set properly while recording, somehow the new MP3 ended up being quieter...

And yes, it's rather subtle - Fatso could do a lot more, but what we tried to achieve with it with the time allowed was just hearing what it could do to an unmastered track. We checked all the combinations of various things and this is what we came up with. Had we had like a full day to spend on just tweaking this particular track, it'd most likely sound a lot better (some PT TDM plugin magic might have happened, not to mention all the other gadgets lying around in the studio ) - but then again, it's also an unfinished track to begin with.

Also worth mentioning is that some things Fatso does don't really sound that good when you turn things full on - Warmth for example sounded rather horrible

With hardware it's always the "you have to hear it for yourself" - certainly what I posted isn't something that could or should convince anybody about how "superior" Fatso is compared to software equivalents.

As for believing Empirical Labs' marketing hype - that's the whole reason we went and checked it out after the opportunity presented itself - we were rather sceptical about the whole thing I still don't "believe" it, and don't feel like Fatso is a magical mystery box that makes everything sound better - like we already mentioned, on some things it didn't do anything good... my recollection of the whole session was that it was 50/50 - half the time the results after trying out all the combinations of compression, warmth, tranny etc. were that it sounded worse with Fatso used than without it... especially on those Kingston tracks we had with us - those are already mixed to such a degree and with such a sound that we simply couldn't do anything to them with Fatso but harm (and that's all software mixed stuff!)

As for expecting more then... well, it's used really subtly, as you noticed

And as for "completely wrong usage of the hardware" - gee whiz, I thought it's meant for putting sound in and getting sound in and altering sound by turning on some knobs, pushing some buttons and enjoying some flashy LEDs...

* edit - yeah, I ain't taking it as an attack... it really isn't that good an example after all *

But still... can't really name a plugin that does roughly the same job with the same finesse. VintageWarmer doesn't cut it at all. Most plugins that offer saturation at some stage in the process don't cut it either - it's like misuse of the term.

But maybe with some Voxengo magic, perhaps...

Regards,

JMH

[;-)]

But still... can't really name a plugin that does roughly the same job with the same finesse. VintageWarmer doesn't cut it at all. Most plugins that offer saturation at some stage in the process don't cut it either - it's like misuse of the term.

But maybe with some Voxengo magic, perhaps...

Regards,

JMH

Sorry, but I don't understand this.

I think there are many plugins able to do that. And also all in very different (individual) manner. With the same "magic" as with that hardware.

Not necessary Voxengo (because I believe, those tools are way too complicated for the average user).

I believe even, you can do many tricks with some freeware that way...

And by the way, you wouldn't need 3 hours to tweak them to get a pleasant result for your song, but instantly! You had not even to fight with all the setup and connections in a mastering studio then ...


If you tweaked really that long this machine with your song and finally got out that result above (which is like a 1:1 copy of the original but quieter), then I very much doubt any "magic" of this tool at all.


Or is it finally soo "subtile", that nobody is able to hear any difference at all?

.

[MickGael]

I owned a Distressor for 2 years (before I was forced to sell all my audio gear - my then-girlfriend was sick with cancer).

No plugin I have ever heard or used comes close to how that box sounded.

That said, some are nice. Just different.

[bmanic]

Well, whatever the fatso did to JMH's track was pretty damn obvious in the studio but maybe it's lost in the mp3 files? dunno.. I have not checked them as mp3's yet. If I recall the fatso added some 'density' to the mix and removed some slightly harsh highs (I've learned the genelecs in school and they are rather harsh so there was probably no real problem with them in the first place!). I don't exactly remeber what settings we used but I think we had the compressor switched on too and that 'tranny' button. It's quite a while ago so I can't really remeber but back then I thought the difference was quite big.

Cheers!
bManic

[;-)]

Well, whatever the fatso did to JMH's track was pretty damn obvious in the studio but maybe it's lost in the mp3 files?

...


It's quite a while ago so I can't really remeber but back then I thought the difference was quite big.

Cheers!
bManic

Hmmm.
I doubt very much, that the mp3 encoding could ever remove all that "drastic" results and "big difference" from the mix. That's simply impossible.

But could it be possible, that JMH has placed wrong files?

Otherwise this entire topic has to be moved to the "hardware superstition corner" (again).

.

[backpage]

Fatso is a tape simulator right? For those who can't afford to shell out 2000 dollars why not invest in a decent reel to reel and you can dump a mix onto it using hot levels. It won't sound as good as 2 inch tape but Otari, tascam, fostex etc... stills sounds pretty damn good.

[;-)]

Fatso is a tape simulator right? For those who can't afford to shell out 2000 dollars why not invest in a decent reel to reel and you can dump a mix onto it using hot levels. It won't sound as good as 2 inch tape but Otari, tascam, fostex etc... stills sounds pretty damn good.

Not exactly a "tape saturator". Claims to be much more.

.

[deleted]

DELETED

[;-)]

I think, it is a very interesting topic here, so I spontanuous made some tests with software based "saturating and analog warming" plugins:

Here are the results:
(You really have to download all completely and open it at once into an audio editor to being able to compare with each other.)

http://test.dizainer.net/mm_vintagewarmer.mp3
http://test.dizainer.net/mm_ozone.mp3
http://test.dizainer.net/mm_intubator.mp3

It's the same song. All the used plugins use instantly selectable presets. Even laymens are able to apply that. And they do it all different with the final result, that it *is audible* what they do. Plus: the really saturate the sound in different ways - tweakeble in some directions.

VintageWarmer saturates nicely and also clearly increases the loudness. It uses the default patch. Dynamics are well compressed. The mix gets indeed some warmth with only inserting the plugin into the chain. Instant solution pure.
The default preset is also the most subtile preset. VW can sound very extreme if wanted.

Ozone does a good job using the "tape saturation" preset. It verry well also compresses the dynamics and very good increases the overall loudness this way. Used are only the multiband dynamics and the multiband exciter. Well, it is a highly specialized mastering suite, saturation is a quite easy task for Ozone.

Intubator equalizes the loudness relation inside the song, but dosn't increase the overall loudness that much as the other two. (Because it has no loudness modifiers, but is merely a multiband saturator with integrated brickwall limiters). It excites the high frequencies very pleasant and adds overall warmification (bottom) to the entire mix.

All do subtile but kinda "magic analog warming" things to the sound - in different ways. It is also audible (and anyhow definable or describeble) in all those cases.


I don't believe the "hardware magic" with mastering equipment anymore. Most is merely digital stuff novadays, like our plugins too.

Any mystification would be nonsense here.

.

[tee boy]

Maybe you could try something like Trash along with Kjaerhus Bus Comp, or Vintage Warmer. Im sure you could emulate those Distressor sounds to extent with this stuff (and god forbid come up with some new sounds )

[urosh]

***All this is very AFAIK since im not in Emp. Lab. team***

Just to clear things a bit : fatso has three basic processing
stages : fet based comp ( that is guilty for "classic knee comp"
and "harmonic/saturation" thing ), real transformer inside
( guilty for "tapehead/x-former" hype ) and hifreq limiter ( that is
"warmth" generator).
So comp/dist part uses field effect transistor in ohmic region,
where fet basicaly works as voltage controled shunt resistor.
And this topology is shared with Distressor , UA 1176 and 1178
and drawmer 1968/1969, to name few. So quite different
sounding comps with same basic topology. So forgedaboud
using uad 1176 to nail fatso "sound".
Now dist/sat part . FET used as resistor is nonlinear so
while doing gain riding for compresion it also produce a bit ( or
qite a bit ) of distortion. Now clever circuit trick of feeding back
part of signal back to fet gate reduces distortion. I think
1176 black face uses this trick , silverface dont and
variable amount/type of this feedback is what Distressor dist
switch does. To get some bit of this "magic", u will probably
have to wait for SqueezeTone. No sat plug or hardware can work
this fet thing, at least for now, unless it uses fet ( like fatso).
Transformer is transformer. Just, this particular xformer was
probably twaked/chosen with help of lot of feedback from
whoever was in involved in betatesting fatso. So this is
not tape emulation but xformer core saturation is member
of same family. And I'm not aware of any good transformer
modeling plug out there ( if somebody knows something that
does this I would be very gratefull for pointer).
Warmth is ultra fast limiter of high frequency band. It works
great and there is nothing quite like it in both hard and soft
worlds, except new empirical labs EQ which ( I guess ) uses
same warmth circuit from fatso.
So I hope this info will be usefull if somebody wants to
emulate fatso with plugs.

Now some subjective opinions from using fatso :
a) Its great at what it does
b) nothing in this world is great on every material u put in

IMHO: in room where I get to play with fatso ( big room
with krk v88 + s12 ) , I found fatso rather nonsubtle. Just
pluggin in bloody thing can be obvious , and this machine
is definitly not in transparent camp. Now there is definitly
hype bout using fatso as "tape emulation" and i dont think
its too usefull on 2bus. As on working on particular track
it can do lot of nice things . Trick of making kick n bass
sound big on small sistems with "tranny" can work. Now
distortion is linked with compresion, but u can get some
control by paching sidechain trough mixer channel ( push
fader down and u get more distortion before compresion
kicks in ). And
wise amount of warmth ( my favourite of three ) can work
wonders on "edgy" sounds emerging from daw, like harsh
hihats ( fatso rules on these), clicky/atacky softsynth
sounds, ugly spot on kicks and other stuff.

So, IMveryHO, fatso is box in league of its own, with lot
of flavours ( distorting comp, tranny, warmth and their
sinergic effect ) which somebody might like or dislike.
Its not "magic box" ( if somebody belives in magic boxes
he/she has serious extended childhood syndrome) and
using it on 2bus might not be best choice. If somebody
wants tape emu. wait for rupert neve box or get PT and
buy Cranesong Phoenix ( I havent heard it but "hype"
said it should kick balls). Or simply get voxengo stuff
( just to get one more repeat in long echo : HIGHLY
RECOMENDED ), or Hydratone flame (not tape emu
but does "wonder" of same family as tape) or
Character for Powercore ( can be great or distastefull ).

my 2 cents and sorry for distastefully long post
urosh


and as usual : if u want to get some analog shit to work
with daw first get great ad/da or it might not be worth it

[bduffy]

What the hell is an "Intubator"???

[martian]

At first: The Fatso track is -1.36db quieter!!!

After normalizing it, the (psycho-accoustical) loudness of the original track remains higher than the proceeded track...

i make the fatso over 2db quieter, this isnt about volume anyway, is it? jus set them equal and compare, no need to normalise.

Ok, here goes...

http://amj.bombsquad.org/temp/mm_original.mp3

http://amj.bombsquad.org/temp/mm_fatso.mp3

Ignore the cheese songwise (those robot vox were a temp thing, though the cheesiness has grown on me since...)

Regards,

JMH

thanks for the examples.

on the fatso one the channels are reversed, I've also checked out 000's VW and ozone samples too.

i can hear the fatso clip adds nice air and detail to the highs, which the software and original clips do not have.

the ozone example sounds potentially the worse to me, no much like the fatso one, instead quite distorted.

easy,