Sonar 5 has arrived...

[headquest]

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Sonitus/sonitus.asp

Hi AD80,

That was done because of complaints from Ultrafunk users/supporters. And to the best of my knowledge it only applies to USA customers (in Europe I believe you can buy the whole lot as an overpriced download bundle, but not the individual plugs).

Apple ignored public pressure, so in that respect they are *worse*.

I hope that Cakewalk don't treat RGC and Voxengo the same way.

[Jaeson Merrill]

Alot of this talk about GUI clutter and messy interfaces
is right on point, the only problem is that it doesn't really apply to cakewalk

I suggest you guys download the demo and actually use the app before you think its a messy interface.

This may be different strokes for different folks, or American vs. European sensibility, but when I started comparing Sonar/Logic/Cubase when I got into sequencing a few years ago, the only app I could use with no problem was Sonar...

IMO the interface is what they do best......

Better yet, I'll post a screenshot of my starting template, and you guys can decide if its cluttered or not

if the interface hasnt changed since sonar 2, which is the one a friend of mine had, then its still cluttered. already tried.

[Jaeson Merrill]

Err... so an empty song with nothing happening qualifies for an elegant userinterface?

Some people...

just what i was thinking...

[Jaeson Merrill]

However, there's quite some good lookig features coming along with Sonar 5. I hope they made the interface a bit more appealing to my taste, I never liked the overall layout at all.

Ah, quite an understatement. While it *is* extremely useful, Sonar apparently continues to incrementally creep towards what seems to be an inevitable demise: death by bloating. The exponential increase in patched together features, and the outdated layers of dialogue-base UI with which they do it, are fearsome.

agreed.. theres so much bloat.. I hope that is improved.

buuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrp! Please pass the tums extra super-strength........

this is probably the thing that turns me off the most. The "aw hell, just throw another coat of paint and some freshener on" approach.

It seems like a very minor update imho compared to the "omg buy now it'll be the greatest update ever" bs..........sonar 4 was actually a huge step, but not this incarnation.

The 64 bit stuff could be useful about a year from now when vista has been out for a while and dev's have the right drivers.

Native vst support. Very important, but so many others have it already.......way behind. You watch, put this in the bank and collect interest on it though.....it'll be the vst wrapper (the worst one ever!) disguiused as native..........

The verb sounds cool, but this voxengo yanking it so suddenly, and now we know why "thing" is a bit un-nerving to me. Seems wierd.

........yeah i'm babbling...........

babbling, yes.

but telling the truth

[ztutz]

Given all that has been said, do you think the upgrade from studio edition 3 to studio edition 5 is worth the $100 ?

I would think yes, were it not for the addition requirement to upgrade win2k to winXP.

yes

[and imho you really want to be running xp, 'cause MS only pays attention to the security issues there]

[WillieJenkins]

The simple point was that this is my starting template. All that gets added are midi and audio tracks. Theres no other buttons or menus or anything else that will appear to "clutter" things up.

If anything Sonar may be TOO simplistic and easy to use, I guess maybe people weaned into music using trackers and the like may not understand, but those of us who come from acoustic backgrounds.. I dunno

[dougsyo]

I'm in the same camp as you, except I am thinking I can snag the upgrade price from Cakewalk Pro Audio for $349 for the Producer edition... and let me tell you, that's damn tempting.

And finally...NATIVE VST SUPPORT!!! No more wrappers!!! Midi outputting VSTi's working properly without the need for loopback devices or other workarounds!!!

I thought I read that wrong myself and I'll say this, the requirement of a wrapper was really putting me off in the past.

I want a Sonar 5 demo now. If it's half as good as I think it will be then I'll be taking a serious consideration to switching hosts.

Not that Theo will switch again, but if I remember right, the VSTI wrappers were his main gripe about Sonar.

I must be pretty simple by comparison, because the only vsti I had that caused indigestion to the CW VST wrapper was Jamstix. There were a few that I had to scan a second time - and that could have been more aggravating to some other than to me - but I'll be glad that those days are gone.

Funny, just a few weeks ago, I had said something to the extent that I didn't see what Cakewalk could do to Sonar5P for me to justify buying it. The things they've added to S5P are making it look promising though.

Doug

[Kraznet]

ttoz wrote :

However, Sonar's gui is nowhere near as cluttered or annoying as sx's, or samplitude's for that mater. I don't find it that ugly.

In what way do you find Samplitudes GUI cluttered or annoying? Part of the reason I decided to crossgrade from Logic PC to Samp rather than get a Mac was because of the nice clean , customisable and skinable interface .

Kraznet

[hello1234]

However, there's quite some good lookig features coming along with Sonar 5. I hope they made the interface a bit more appealing to my taste, I never liked the overall layout at all.

Ah, quite an understatement. While it *is* extremely useful, Sonar apparently continues to incrementally creep towards what seems to be an inevitable demise: death by bloating. The exponential increase in patched together features, and the outdated layers of dialogue-base UI with which they do it, are fearsome.

agreed.. theres so much bloat.. I hope that is improved.

buuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrp! Please pass the tums extra super-strength........

this is probably the thing that turns me off the most. The "aw hell, just throw another coat of paint and some freshener on" approach.

It seems like a very minor update imho compared to the "omg buy now it'll be the greatest update ever" bs..........sonar 4 was actually a huge step, but not this incarnation.

The 64 bit stuff could be useful about a year from now when vista has been out for a while and dev's have the right drivers.

Native vst support. Very important, but so many others have it already.......way behind. You watch, put this in the bank and collect interest on it though.....it'll be the vst wrapper (the worst one ever!) disguiused as native..........

The verb sounds cool, but this voxengo yanking it so suddenly, and now we know why "thing" is a bit un-nerving to me. Seems wierd.

........yeah i'm babbling...........

babbling, yes.

but telling the truth

[hello1234]

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Sonitus/sonitus.asp

Hi AD80,

That was done because of complaints from Ultrafunk users/supporters. And to the best of my knowledge it only applies to USA customers (in Europe I believe you can buy the whole lot as an overpriced download bundle, but not the individual plugs).

Apple ignored public pressure, so in that respect they are *worse*.

I hope that Cakewalk don't treat RGC and Voxengo the same way.

What is this? I have pe3 and can do vst's of everything except (of course ) compressor, multiband, eq.

These 3 were dx and could only be used with a wrapper in vst hosts............has it changed? Is there a way to get these for owners of pe3?

[original flipper]

HI

Sonar is the only host I have ever tried and failed with.

I don't mean to knock the programme; but point out that I have used/demoed pretty well every host available on the PC platform at 1 stage or another (after retiring Logic I went through a mega-trial/demo phase).

In itself this doesn't mean a great deal but does indicate that I probably wasn't helped by the interface - having just sold SXV3 I really don't care for eye candy and simply want a front end that is intuitive.

I wonder if any real market research or testing takes place in this area - even on a minor scale?

Saying that, I do think that the feature set (for potential new users - if features are your thing) is in the 'to die for' category - I wonder if the major players will ALL at some stage take a rain check and a long hard look at the whole interface/workflow issue?

I am currently using XT/Live and may replace SXV3 with something like SEV3 - I really want a traditional host with a traditional feature set: without the overblown feature set.

No one can say that all these features don't come at a cost, surely the more features that are bolted on - the less stable a host will be, more potential conflicts will arise, longer start up periods, massive application folder for content, confusing interface, you never learn half the features or use them, bug's appear all over the place, bugs take ages to be rectified, large amounts of system resources are taken up ......

I know different users require a varied choice of fetures but I would like to see the POWER of the top line product put into seriously scaled down versions that currently tend to suffer, so if I buy Steinberg SE I will get a lighter program BUT will be limited to say 16 vst' and 48 tracks of audio, I would rather have unlimited audio/vst capability, along with dual core/cpu support: what I dont want is all the crap like 3 mixer views, windows all over the place, a dongle, ridiculous amounts of meaningless (although I am sure they MIGHT be usefull to someone) icons, buttons, faders, midi routing that is less flexible but more complex to use than the most simple vst .....

My point is that all these features are on reflection eye candy that fools people into thinking their music will take on a new dimension of creativity (you know: like you just studied to play the Piano or Guitar for 3 years and now have some ideas you previously were berfit of)- this aint a fault of Cakewalk, everyone throws features into their host like there is no tomorrow - even my favorite host/utility Energy XT is way past it's sell by date on being anything but obscenly unituitive (in particular to new users) as the developer appears incapable of taking stock of the monster he is starting to create.

Actuallty that was a bit of an over statement, anyone who uses XT will agree though - lets stop throwing in features and consolidate the feel, intuitiveness, workflow, layout.

These are the things that I hardly EVER hear people talk about .....why is that?

I imagine that anyone happy enough to have a transparent compositional set-up probably would not be arsed to come and advertise it, so I answered my own question - the majority of people 'here' WANT eye candy, features and the rest!

End of observation!

Flipper.

[chagzuki]

eXT was never that intuitive.

[Jaeson Merrill]

All that gets added are midi and audio tracks.

.....which in themselve are cluttered and bloated looking right?

[WillieJenkins]

If you find those tracks cluttered, I suggest you go here

[JerGoertz]

I predict that Sonar 5 will make my music 25% better.