KVR Audio

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:26 pm

S_A_P and Lunch Money are correct. [edit] Oops, and psychopractor, sorry]

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/a ... cks661.htm
co-producer Mark Taylor explains how "Believe" was made
("That Vocal Trick in Full" is about halfway down the page)

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:31 pm

I think the statements in the interview are just a decoy & smoke curtain, not revealing how easy it may be. Yes they probably did fiddle around with a vocoder. And dubbed it with results of autotune

Voidoid Surrealist · Post by **Voidoid Surrealist** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:43 pm

Lunch Money wrote: Someone had a good "Dummy's Guide to..." graphic that says it all.

Greg

You rang?

and from the KvR t shirt thread:

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:56 pm

C00kie: Shhh! I paid SOS thousands of zorkmids to get that disinformation propagated. Don't wreck my investment.

Voidoid: Niiiiice...

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:02 am

There is a huge difference between 95% of 'that' sound and the actual polished-to-perfection end result. I have no doubts at all the Cher was present in the studio when somebody applied extreme Autotune and that she loved the sound and wanted it. That would explain why Cher has publicly talked about Autotune. But - the engineer would have been left with the task to actually make it sound good. I have no doubt that he did what he said he did - re-created the effect with a Nord synth and a Digitech talk box. By vocoding a mono-synth lead you would have much greater control, and would be able to tweak and modulate it to perfection. It would be nothing without Chers vocal performance.

jasonsantiago · Post by **jasonsantiago** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:31 am

give me a break, have you tried using either? Use auto tune with a retune speed setting of 0, its the cher effect, its not a talk box, they used a talk box on the track but the "Cher effect" is auto tune.

Antares has a 10 day trial on their website, download it and try it, it will be instantly obvious they used auto-tune.

i've read the interview, i think he is leaving auto-tune out on purpose.

If you believe it is a talkbox, prove it. Make a "talk box" cher effect and post it. It won't sound the same.

greendoor · Post by **greendoor** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:50 am

Do you know what a Digitech Talk Box is? It's a good hardware vocoder. Nobody can re-create that sound without the actual Cher lead vocal track to modulate the synth. I have no doubt that Autotune was applied to that lead vocal track - we are most probably hearing a combination of the two. I'm just saying that nobody has to be lying here. I'm sure they used both.

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:22 am

Back in the day word from the horse's mouth was that they weren't allowed to mention Autotune in order not to misrepresent Cher's vocal abilities (which I'd only rate mediocre... what can one do with such an annoying voice to begin with

)

One of those conspiracy theories. If you're lucky, you might even be able to come up with those messageboard/newsgroups/forum/email posts about the thing - those used to be available at some point.

Must be an awesome vocoder in Talker though if it as a byprocess strips information from the original vocals such as vibrato... just like Autotune does and just happens to sound like that Cher bit :O

Man, I want a Talker VSTi now.

JMH

psychopractor · Post by **psychopractor** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:33 am

I love those graphics!!

too funny

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:23 pm

I'd have to find the article again, but when the producer was interviewed, he discussed the technique at length and explicitly. Was he avoiding mentioning Autotune? Maybe. Is it possible, just possible, that such suggestions are just more rumours added to the mythology of the technique? Also possible.

What I do remember is that the level of detail was significant enough that it sounded very plausible. It had to do with programming the carrier wave to the Talker at JUST the right time (and by hand) in order to reproduce that characteristic "jump" in voice.

Everyone here knows that Autotune CAN sound a lot like this. But that doesn't mean that it WAS what was used. Autotune in auto mode tends to have a lot more unexpected jumps and corrections than what "Believe" exhibits.

I mean, either way... please... DON'T use that effect!

Greg

Stupid American Pig · Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:28 pm

I cant, err uhh BELIEVE that people want to argue about this hideous effect from a track that should have never been released anyway

Unkie Al · Post by **Unkie Al** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:33 pm

Let's not go too far afield from the original question: did anyone come up with a software plug-in? Not "where can I get said plug-in?" I only wanted to know if anyone gave it their best shot before the effect went tits-up from uncreative overuse.

jasonsantiago · Post by **jasonsantiago** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:38 pm

i'm definitely with you greendoor that both might have been used in the song... but when people say 'cher effect' they usually are referring to the previously unattainable sound that Auto-Tune brought by putting the retune speed at 0 (that now can be duplicated in other programs like Melodyne), not the vocoder effect in the song done by a talkbox.

sure nobody has cher's original take, but i'm sure you know some over the hill female singers you can do a test on. You get a digitech talkbox, I get autotune, and then we'll post them online and everyone can decide... any takers?

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:40 pm

Unkie Al, does it have to be freeware? Or would cherware be acceptable?

(sorry)

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:43 pm

Meffy wrote:Unkie Al, does it have to be freeware? Or would cherware be acceptable?

(sorry)

How did I not see that one coming?!?!?!?

Another CHER vocal request