KVR Audio

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:58 pm

i find p5-2 keyboard and mouse editing (what other options do we even have ;P) pretty restricting. (edit: useless)

the only (!) keyboard shortcut i've found regarding step recording, is rest (tab). is this true?

what about moving back and forth in the timeline, deleting etc etc etc .... ?

also, amongst the first things i wanted to do was to select several notes in a clip and alter their lengths simultaneously, but found it impossible.

does project 5 really suck this bad?

if not, could you point out some more useful resources (where i can find more info on /these/ subjects amongst others), or at least tell me briefly how to do these things ..

thsnks ..

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:39 pm

...

so it /is/ useless, then? ,)

...

;D

JJost · Post by **JJost** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:58 pm

Hi Moonlite,

I understand you want more mouse/keyboard editing gestures. These items are definitely high on the list, so please stay tuned.

In the meantime, here are a few pointers I hope you'll find useful:

moonlite wrote: tell me briefly how to do these things ..

Project5's keyboard commands are listed in the main application menu: Help-Keyboard Shortcuts

moonlite wrote: the only (!) keyboard shortcut i've found regarding step recording, is rest (tab). is this true?

These are a few others...

- TAB advances the step number
- SHIFT+SPACE starts/stops pattern preview
- SHIFT R engages recording
- SHIFT+T sends pattern to the arrange pane
- NUM 1-0 sets step resolution
- D and CTRL+SHIFT+T set pattern resolution to dotted or triplet respectively

moonlite wrote: what about moving back and forth in the timeline, deleting etc etc etc .... ?

In the arranger, CTRL+PAGE UP/DOWN moves Now Time bwd/fwd.

Deleting operates only on selection context, which happens via mouse.

moonlite wrote: also, amongst the first things i wanted to do was to select several notes in a clip and alter their lengths simultaneously, but found it impossible.

To do this:

1. Use the cursor to lasso select the notes
2. In the main app menu, select Process-Quantize (CTRL+SHIFT+Q) or Process-Length, depending on the result you want.

Hope this helps!

moonlite · Post by **moonlite** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:15 pm

JJost wrote:Hi Moonlite,

I understand you want more mouse/keyboard editing gestures. These items are definitely high on the list, so please stay tuned.

cool, always feel free to ask me to help if you want a perfect step editing environment, especially now, when you are "baking a new cake" so it can be modeled to do just about anything =)

In the meantime, here are a few pointers I hope you'll find useful:

moonlite wrote: tell me briefly how to do these things ..
Project5's keyboard commands are listed in the main application menu: Help-Keyboard Shortcuts

this one i found already, but thanks anyway ..

moonlite wrote: the only (!) keyboard shortcut i've found regarding step recording, is rest (tab). is this true?
These are a few others...

- TAB advances the step number
- SHIFT+SPACE starts/stops pattern preview
- SHIFT R engages recording
- SHIFT+T sends pattern to the arrange pane
- NUM 1-0 sets step resolution
- D and CTRL+SHIFT+T set pattern resolution to dotted or triplet respectively

hmm, kewl, but still not enough, and not very fast to use .. what i mostly came to need is a backspace-function that works just like the backspace on your qwerty keyboard (and it should be CLOSE to the "rest" function (tab)

also, means of moving back and forth (just like the arrow keys on qwerty), also near those two others.

these, to begin with. at least that first one.

moonlite wrote: what about moving back and forth in the timeline, deleting etc etc etc .... ?
In the arranger, CTRL+PAGE UP/DOWN moves Now Time bwd/fwd.

Deleting operates only on selection context, which happens via mouse.

yeah ... but the point of this post was the midi editor and the point of this .. point ;) was keyboard operation ...

moonlite wrote: also, amongst the first things i wanted to do was to select several notes in a clip and alter their lengths simultaneously, but found it impossible.
To do this:

1. Use the cursor to lasso select the notes
2. In the main app menu, select Process-Quantize (CTRL+SHIFT+Q) or Process-Length, depending on the result you want.

Hope this helps!

hmmkay, kewl. thanks ... =)

... and good luck with maturing p5 ...

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:27 pm

dunno about the midi-editing - I think it's somewhere in the middle between Tracktion (very bad) and eXT (very good) but all in all I find P5v2 to be so cumbersome (and even buggy) that I completely stopped working with it.

Now I just use its plugins inside eXT via Console.

It's only too bad that nPulse and Velocity fail to co-operate.

@ Jesse Jost: if you are interested in knowing what I find so bad about P5 (believe me: all valid points) just contact me by pm. I'd gladly help you improving it but I can't be bothered to mess with your support-staff.

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:38 pm

HI

Another P5 (ex for the moment) user.

For me it is the fiddly velocity editing that stops the show, confusing use of FX, Wrapper initially was rock solid - then became very unstable?!

Native vst support without the wrapper please!

I agree with jens - as far as midi editing is concerned - XT imo has the bast piano-roll edit area around - bar none, could do with some enhanced editing features, but for quick no fuss input it rocks.

Like FL - I can but wait for 'the up-date' that perhaps turns the tide for me!

Flipper.

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:09 pm

original flipper wrote: Native vst support without the wrapper please!

I disagree with that the wrapper is a problem - though I know several vst-plugins which make P5 (and Sonar) crash but they are old and somewhat buggy so I don't think you can say it's the wrapper's fault....

anyway: the handling of the wrapper was always flawless imo.

(but man was the original FXpansion pdc-beta buggy

)

tonymead · Post by **tonymead** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:32 am

Hi Jesse, guys.

I bought P5 v2 a few months ago and really like it, seems to fit my creative way of working basic synth use, quite a bit of drum loop work (midi and audio).

If there is an update planned (2.5??) can I maybe add a *wish* to the list..

1. Record to multiple Audio tracks at once - as a singer songwriter I usually have a mic and guitar going in at the same time.

Cheers

Tony Mead

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:55 am

hi Tony,

you can already do what you ask for with P5v2

the only problem is that P5 only accepts one stereo-input at a time, but you can record from its left channel to one track and from its right channel to another one.

Therefor you have to change the input from the default stereo setting to mono. On the track you want to record to left- or right-click on 'stereo-input' and then select the channel you want to use.

Of course it would be nice if P5 would support more than one stereo-input at once but this has already been requested by many users so there's hope.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:05 am

original flipper wrote:XT imo has the bast piano-roll edit area around - bar none, could do with some enhanced editing features, but for quick no fuss input it rocks.

I'm interested in both these, but confused here...

What is wrong with P5v2 MIDI editing?

What makes XT's MIDI editing the best in yours/Jens' view?

ceenda · Post by **ceenda** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:33 am

headquest: There's just something very immediate about MIDI editing with XT. At first, I found adding notes into eXT's piano roll non intuitive (either Alt-Click or double-click), but I now find that I'm able to insert notes, delete notes, alter velocity and length, slice notes, add CCs, add program changes etc. faster than any other app that I'm familiar with (Tracktion, FLS, Orion). Also, being able to 'stack' CC windows in the main Piano roll allows me to adjust Velocity, Sustain, Modulation etc. all in the same place (which is great for some VSTs), whereas in something like Tracktion you can only view one MIDI parameter at a time in the velocity area. The lack of time-signature and tempo controls can be limiting, especially if you're importing MIDI files that you've been working on via notation software, though I'm told that time sig and tempo is high on Jorgen's list.

tonymead · Post by **tonymead** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:34 am

you can already do what you ask for with P5v2

Thanks Jens. That's cool then, I'll have a go at this later.

Of course it would be nice if P5 would support more than one stereo-input at once

Yeah, I often have a mic and DI from a Vox Tonelab which is nice to have going in as Stereo

Thanks again.

Tony

PS. Does anyone have any inside info on wether we're gonna' get a .5 update or will it all be in V3

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:53 am

ceenda wrote:headquest: There's just something very immediate about MIDI editing with XT. At first, I found adding notes into eXT's piano roll non intuitive (either Alt-Click or double-click), but I now find that I'm able to insert notes, delete notes, alter velocity and length, slice notes, add CCs, add program changes etc. faster than any other app that I'm familiar with (Tracktion, FLS, Orion).

I still find it relatively counterintuitive in comparison to what Im used to, TBH. I can see how someone could get used to using it quickly, but I dont find it as significant an improvement over the tools Im used to as is implied.

Also, being able to 'stack' CC windows in the main Piano roll allows me to adjust Velocity, Sustain, Modulation etc. all in the same place (which is great for some VSTs), whereas in something like Tracktion you can only view one MIDI parameter at a time in the velocity area.

I agree that that's an excellent implementation, yes.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:07 pm

ceenda wrote:headquest: There's just something very immediate about MIDI editing with XT. At first, I found adding notes into eXT's piano roll non intuitive (either Alt-Click or double-click), but I now find that I'm able to insert notes, delete notes, alter velocity and length, slice notes, add CCs, add program changes etc. faster than any other app that I'm familiar with (Tracktion, FLS, Orion). Also, being able to 'stack' CC windows in the main Piano roll allows me to adjust Velocity, Sustain, Modulation etc. all in the same place (which is great for some VSTs), whereas in something like Tracktion you can only view one MIDI parameter at a time in the velocity area. The lack of time-signature and tempo controls can be limiting, especially if you're importing MIDI files that you've been working on via notation software, though I'm told that time sig and tempo is high on Jorgen's list.

Thanks for that ceenda.

I have eXT demo since the last update, and I can see it has/is developing into a pretty powerful application, and doing so at a fast rate!

I will have more of a play with this now

. As I said in another thread though, I use Reason as my main software instrument, so ReWire host status is an important factor before I finally buy

... when that happens, I think I could well become another eXT convert for sure!

project 5 midi editing useless?