Sonar 5 has arrived...

[headquest]

1) I'm a huge Reason fan and I love ReWire - however, it seems I'm limited to 16 devices with Sonar using MIDI channels for devices. Am I incorrect in this?

I don't use Reason, but I understand that it IS limited to 16 Rewire devices (although some people say that the fact that Sonar 5 includes a REX player helps somewhat). Can't help with your other question.

Damnit. If that's the case, I'm going go have to look into Cubase SX. Clip based effects are pimp, but I need way more than 16 channels of ReWire support with how much I rape/pillage/plunder Reason on a daily basis.

One thing to be aware of concerning rewire & SX is that SX only supports mono rewire channels - so if you are rewiring stereo channels they show up as 2 mono channels in SX & one must then pan them left & right & send them to a group in order to apply VST fx to them etc.
This can also be a pain in projects with lots of rewire channels, especially in conjunction with some of SX's routing quirks e.g. if one uses group channels as sends & then decide to have another couple of rewire channels sent to a group one cannot then send the signal from that to an earlier group channel that is being used as a send - does that make sense?
In short one must plan carefully ahead when using SX & Reason rewired or things can get a little frustrating.

I'm not sure that either Cubase SX or Sonar are really what you want as ReWire hosts for Reason, oswald...

Ableton Live is really more flexible than either in its ReWire implementation, and is a much better compliment to Reason imho (even down to Ableton producing an FM synth - one of the main things Reason lacks). You can use very simple - or highly complex routing - depending on your needs/wish. The returns are all stereo, you can automate all Reason's devices from within Live - and even use Reason's own devices (as well as VST and Ableton effects) for clip based effects/automation. Awesome!

[RapRogue]

That wasn't an insult, it was a serious
question, as the post you made after beltrom's seemed
to ignore what he had said.

The same way you disagreed with my post, the same way
I disagreed with the customization post. That is why
skinning would appeal the most to me. Currently its
not comfortable in a stressful session.

The 'I' in that post came after you had
given your opinions as fact..I quote: The thing is
Sonar looks plastic and it feels plastic. and
Comparing the screenshots Logic Vs Sonar the
alphabet still rules the pecking order. Only then
did you make a statement about what you would prefer:
I would much rather have less and see what I
do.... You then make another statement of opinion
as fact: than the 'try to fit it all into a too
small a space' outlook.

That 'I' line sums up the whole paragraph.

I'm not sure if I should take it as an insult, critique or praise that it's an insult to ask if someone has read what I've written...

all 3

Common now say it with me... SONAR, we already know your
mantra rabbit. Now don't go crazy on the bubblewraps
either.

Awwww, bless; its trying to be witty.

Bless you for your undying faith.

[thunderkyss]

thunderkyss, and those are supposed to prove the clutterfree interface?
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/temp/LogicArrange.jpg is what I'd call clutterfree.
Along with this on my second monitor:
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/temp/LogicMixer.jpg

Which goodies am I getting from the crowded Sonar UI that I'm missing in Logic?

What exactly are you calling clutter?? the toolbars at the top?? Other than that, I don't see where Sonar has anymore stuff than you've got in Logic, and it's been said, I can get rid of the toolbar if I want.

I'll give you this....Logic's track inspector is actually more functional than Sonar's, but that's a different Story.

[kL]

To the other poster who finds scrollwheel zoom as indispensible as I do (doesn't everyone? No? Ever used it? Oh well.):
I called Cakewalk -- as I do whenever there's an udate/upgrade -- and the upshot is:
No. And, like every other time, they act surprised that anyone could ever even want such a thing as scrollwheel zoom... they've never even thought of it.
So, I pass once again, leave Sonar on the harddrive to gather digital dust, and continue to work in Vegas and Tracktion.

[saturdaysaint]

If scrollwheel zoom is really the only thing holding you back, just download Mousewheel Control here - http://www.ardamax.com/info_mwc.html - and set it up with Sonar's zoom keybindings.

[_oswald]

I'm not sure that either Cubase SX or Sonar are really what you want as ReWire hosts for Reason, oswald...

Ableton Live is really more flexible than either in its ReWire implementation, and is a much better compliment to Reason imho (even down to Ableton producing an FM synth - one of the main things Reason lacks). You can use very simple - or highly complex routing - depending on your needs/wish. The returns are all stereo, you can automate all Reason's devices from within Live - and even use Reason's own devices (as well as VST and Ableton effects) for clip based effects/automation. Awesome!

See, the thing is that I don't want any of those features that are exclusive (or at least easier to access, per se) in Live's implimentation of ReWire.

I also don't like Live's interface. I tried Live Lite on the college's iMacs and even though they were Lite versions (bundled with DigiDesign's MBoxes), I simply did not like how it handled and would prefer to work in a somewhat linear system with a GUI that I can get down and funky with.

In a short while I expect to have a few really stupid questions about Cubase as I fumble through it - but that's all par for the course.

[Stairsteps]

On one side you have ppl here singing the praises of the anouncement of there favorite Host getting a upgrade.
And on the other side you have ppl slobbering over how much there host is better and how it can do this or that.
Is this the first time a host ever got upgraded or something? I use Sonar 4 but I didnt go into a tizzy over how great it is over another host or how much better it is at recording your composition. Nor have I gone on to another post such as when Cubase or Protools gets there upgrade and try to scream out about how much better it is recording with sonar.
Why do we have 28 posts here on what is normalla common thing "upgrades happen everyday"
Of the few idiots who have posted here about how better there host can do this or that better than sonar what are you trying to prove?
So ok you use Ableton Live, or Logic or Cubase, so fking what, this is a anouncement about a simple upgrade for Sonar4 , Why with this anouncement do you feel threat or unsecure about your own host so you gotta come on here babbling and slobbering over how good it is. If you feel your host is doing a good job then great go make some music with it, this is a anouncement for ppl interested in Sonar, either existing customers as a upgrade or first time users.

Ive used almost every sequencer on the market and have been sequencing since the early eighties on my AtariST and then Amiga. you know back when IBM was still doing spread sheet days, the only competition for Home users was Mac which was really known as a desktop publishing machine not the musical powerhouse it has become.
I cut my teeth on recording the old fashion way of multitracking on a TEAC reel to reel and using a tascam Multitrack mixer to keep all the tracks in Sync, by using the MTC time code which was a bitch to keep in line.

Just 15 years ago the power we have in even the lowest sequencr "host" was not possible , we have the power of Multimillion dollar studios in our grubby little hands and what do we do? Argue all day over how much better the GUI is LOL or gloat over how better the host is at this or that, OMG there is no innovation no creativness no life in music anymore cause of the fking cry baby attitude we all seem to have over how much better a piece of equipment is over someone elses equipment.

NEWS FLASH fk how good your equipment is, my question is do you enjoy more making MUSIC or Gloating , slobbering and Screwing in the rear how much you enjoy how great your equipment is rated.

PLease get a life a get to making some tunes, we all with the power of modern PCs have more power to create than we know what to do with, so what do we do ? spend our lazy ass time argueing over it.

This comment is the exclusive right and ownership of Stairsteps it cannot be reproduced or used in any way without the written consent from said Party and will subject you the full penalty of Law. Have fun making music

And Btw im sticking with Sonar 4 as I dont see the need for me to upgrade

[kL]

If scrollwheel zoom is really the only thing holding you back, just download Mousewheel Control here - http://www.ardamax.com/info_mwc.html - and set it up with Sonar's zoom keybindings.

A bit of a kludge, unfortunately, in actual usage. (Sometimes pretty good isn't good enough)
But thank you very much.

[kp]

To the other poster who finds scrollwheel zoom as indispensible as I do (doesn't everyone? No? Ever used it? Oh well.):
I called Cakewalk -- as I do whenever there's an udate/upgrade -- and the upshot is:
No. And, like every other time, they act surprised that anyone could ever even want such a thing as scrollwheel zoom... they've never even thought of it.
So, I pass once again, leave Sonar on the harddrive to gather digital dust, and continue to work in Vegas and Tracktion.

And what about those people (me included) who want a scroll wheel to SCROLL? I'd get mighty pissed off if the screen kept zooming every time I moved the wheel.

[kL]

Simple. A modifier key.
In Vegas ctr/scrollwheel scrolls. In Tracktion the same, and the commands can be reversed if someone -- like yourself, for instance -- is more interested in scrolling than zooming. (Tracktion actually goes further: if the cursor is over the data the wheel zooms; if it's over the track settings it scrolls. That really works great.)

[kp]

Agreed - ctrl-scroll (say) would be nice to zoom. It's just another one of these "x is better than y" comments without apparent thought that "y might be better than x" for some people :-)

[christianmusicmaker]

Simple. A modifier key.
In Vegas ctr/scrollwheel scrolls. In Tracktion the same, and the commands can be reversed if someone -- like yourself, for instance -- is more interested in scrolling than zooming. (Tracktion actually goes further: if the cursor is over the data the wheel zooms; if it's over the track settings it scrolls. That really works great.)

Hmmm I wonder if the Navigator view in Sonar might provide a suitable option for you...

"The Navigator pane has a green rectangle in it that is an outline of what the Clips pane is currently displaying. If you drag the center of the rectangle around in the pane, it scrolls the Clips pane to the same view. You can drag any of the nodes on the rectangle to zoom the Clips pane in or out.

If you click in the Navigator pane, the left border of the rectangle jumps to the spot you clicked, and scrolls the Clips pane to that spot also. If you hold down the Ctrl key while you click, the Now time jumps to that spot.

You can do the following with the Navigator pane:

Scroll the display of the Clips pane (drag the green rectangle, or click in the Navigator pane)
Zoom in and out in the Clips pane (drag a node on the green rectangle)
Change the Now time using the Navigator pane (Ctrl-click in the Navigator pane) "

It may not be what you are looking for exactly, but maybe this provides another way of meeting your needs?

Questions, questions....some questions for you all...

Sonar x64 - I am looking forward to trying this out especially seeing the cpu performance gains.
I am currently shopping around for a dual core system. It's probably going to be a Pentium D but the AMD's (64 X2) appear to be faster, maybe anyway.

I currently have my radar on this company:

Redsub
www.sub.co.uk

Do any of you guys use dual processor systems? Either systems with separate dual processors or a new dual core system?

What sort of performance gains have you seen when running your host on a dual processor system?

I think only a few hosts currently support dual core processing on the PC...

Sonar4
CubaseSX3.1
Podium
Others?

Is the difference really that much? 20%, 50%, 75%?

Just trying to get an idea of what sort of performance gain I will get running Sonar on a dual core system.

I do have other apps that do not support dual processors, so I may just go for a 3.8GHZ processor system instead, but maybe a dual core option is more future proof , any advice...?

[kp]

Personal experience with Red Sub means avoid like the plague: I had to threaten legal action to get them to refund for a faulty item.

[thunderkyss]

my question is do you enjoy more making MUSIC or Gloating , slobbering and Screwing in the rear how much you enjoy how great your equipment is rated.

I'm hear for the gloating..........I didn't know you can get "Screwing in the rear" with that.

[christianmusicmaker]

Personal experience with Red Sub means avoid like the plague: I had to threaten legal action to get them to refund for a faulty item.

Really?

I have read about Redsub in Soundonsound magazine and Computer music. They were highly recommended.Maybe they are too small a company to offer refunds.

The only other UK based option would be Phil Rees.

DVPC seem big enough but last time I checked they did not have dual core systems. Phil Rees come across as a really small outfit, although with very good reviews in mags.

What exactly was the problem? Did they simply refuse to refund your money and refuse to fix the problem?

It must have had some sort or warranty