KVR Audio

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:53 pm

EDIT: I'll be adding some more examples to this post later today so keep checking it out. Also, feel free to use the original drum file as a source for more examples. The more the merrier! Try keeping the volume about the same.

I tweaked both sonalksis and crunchessor on a snippet of drums that I've recorded a while ago. The original file is dry without any treatment except some EQ on the kick and highpass on the overhead. I didn't pay any attention to the settings used I just tried to dial in a sound that I like so some of the choises of settings may look weird.

I then put a sonalksis compressor and crunchessor on the "drumbus" and hit them both hard. To my own surprise I managed to get a quite nice sound out of crunchessor. It compresses in a totally different way to the sonalksis comp but it has a pleasant tone too so in the end it comes down to how it sits in the mix and to personal preference. In the examples I couldn't push crunchessor to compress as much as the sonalksis without it starting to spit out nasty transients (aka 'blocks' and 'bits' of sound that jump out of the compression) but I think it's compressed enough to drive a mix.

Here are the examples:

Original File, no compression (high quality mp3)

Original File, no compression (44,1khz 16bit WAV file)

Sonalksis Compression Example

Crunchessor Compression Example

Blockfish Compression Example

Compadre Compression Example

Compadre Compression Example 2

Sintefex Custom 1

Sintefex Custom 2

Sintefex Custom 3

I tried to match the volume by ear but I think they still are not exact matches. The Sonalksis one is compressed really hard (about -18dB of gain reduction) which makes it sound really loud too so you might want to compensate a bit while listening.

Here are the settings I used on crunchessor and sonalksis:

Cheers!
bManic

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:02 pm

bmanic wrote:n the examples I couldn't push crunchessor to compress as much as the sonalksis without it starting to spit out nasty transients (aka 'blocks' and 'bits' of sound that jump out of the compression) but I think it's compressed enough to drive a mix.

Yes - in my experience a single instance of Crunchessor cannot bite into a track quite as far as some of the others which seem to take anything you throw at them - enormous amounts of gain reduction without a hickup.

Multiple Crunchessor instances is one way around this I guess. The sort of artifacts you get when you really push Crunchessor are not necessarily desirable - I generally back it off till I get the result I want.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:12 pm

The reason might be a lack of 'intelligent' release stage or something. Or maybe it's the attack? All I know is that crunchessor requires really careful tuning of the release knob. It's very dependant on how you set it to the music.

Btw, why has nobody made a setting for attack and release on compressor that sync to the hosts tempo? And no, I'm NOT KIDDING!

- bManic

Jaeson Merrill · Post by **Jaeson Merrill** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:28 pm

that is an excellent idea bmanic

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:59 pm

bmanic, I was talking about sound like this one: http://www.voxengo.com/temp/MCCompressionExample.mp3

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:33 pm

bmanic wrote:EDIT: I'll be adding some more examples to this post later today so keep checking it out. Also, feel free to use the original drum file as a source for more examples. The more the merrier! Try keeping the volume about the same.

Did you compress the mp3? I would like to make some comparisons, but maybe a .wav would be better.

FWIW, I honestly think the Blockfish one sounded best, but I'd never compress anything as much in those examples

the kick is mashed beyond recognition and the cymbals get unnatural envelopes. The point is that I see no reason pushing any compressor that far... the source material starts sounding shite way before the worst compressor plug.

@ soundpalace, Crunchessor's color is most obvious on your own voice, I tried it accidentally once and

dburgan · Post by **dburgan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:44 pm

At that heavy compression, I thought the Sonalksis sounded the best, but really all of them did surprisingly well on such a challenging job. Interestingly, the sound coloring/warmth sounded somewhat similar on all of them. Blockfish was especially surprising given it's freeware. Anyway, interesting comparison!

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:06 pm

I don't know how much experience you have in mixing heavy rock/metal but sometimes the drum bus compressor is hit very hard to make the drums hit trough a busy mix (wall of guitars). The cymbal pumping blends in to the background and is masked by the guitars.

The idea with the heavy compression in these examples was to bring out the character of the particular compressor.

I'll post the original .wav file once i get home. Sorry for all the typos.. I'm typing this message on my mobile phone while sitting in a cafe.

- bManic

dburgan · Post by **dburgan** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:20 pm

Yeah I figured for rock the drum squash was pretty critical. With that sample it's easy to see why - the original had very uneven dynamics. Would be impossible to make that cut through any substantial mix.

Interesting about the cymbal pumping being masked. Honestly that was what distinguished the Sonalksis for me - the cymbal tails felt more natural than the Blockfish or the Crunchessor.

I guess I use compressors pretty differently in the kind of music I make (ambient / smooth electronic type stuff). In my world, compressors are there to make things sound smooooooth and to keep the most onerous peaks down.

And I'd never use Crunchessor (or really any single band compressor) on a bus. For bus work it's always Voxengo Soniformer for me ... which can squash the lights out of absolutely anything with no artifacts. What an amazing tool.

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:22 pm

Not much exp, I get your point about the geetars mix. If you can get away with that much smashing then I guess it's ok to demand brutality from a compressor

...and it might also be the mp3zing that rapes the kick sound.

Just checking my ears - is the blockfish preserving or adding low freqs compared to the sonalksis? There's this funny booming that sounds cool on low volumes, but becomes a bit irritating when you turn it louder.

And I wonder why I'm not doing something a tad more useful instead of this

Rune L-H · Post by **Rune L-H** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:53 pm

bmanic wrote:It's just like with hardware compressors, some just sound/behave very different (think Joe Meek compressors, they behave very weirdly) and hence do not work for all tasks.

Yes, I believe "character" is only possible by allowing a piece of equipment to have both its up's and down's. The small quirks are as much a character-defining aspect as the regular "good" features of a compressor etc. I just personaly think these specialized processors are much more fun and rewarding to use, instead of an ultra-flexible unit that has had all its sharp edges polished down in order to make it work with everything.

That was the idea behind developing Compadre Beatpuncher so I think it's fair to mention it in a topic of Drum Compression even though this thread is basicly about Crunchessor

Best regards,
Rune

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:09 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:bmanic, I was talking about sound like this one: http://www.voxengo.com/temp/MCCompressionExample.mp3

Sounds good Aleksey, maybe a tad bit distorted but in a good way. A new mode in crunchessor?

I'll try uploading the .wav file ASAP but right now I can't get to my own computer. You might want to re-do the example once I post it as there are still some mp3 artefacts in my original.

Cheers!
bManic

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:10 pm

Rune L-H wrote: That was the idea behind developing Compadre Beatpuncher so I think it's far to mention it in a topic of Drum Compression even though this thread is basicly about Crunchessor

Best regards,
Rune

I totally forgot about compadre!

I'll post some compadre examples tomorrow too! Btw. nice hearing something from you Rune.

Cheers!
bManic

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:20 pm

Compadre Beatpuncher looks interesting (demo sounds pretty good even though I can't get to the knobs) and it has the dry/mix knob I like for mixing in some rude compression when needed...believe it or not I have a full mix where the kick is all over the place and is getting in the way of the snare, of all things - maybe this'll help make the snare crack more - over the click of the kick. Opinions? We'll see...

Rune L-H · Post by **Rune L-H** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm

kylen wrote:Compadre Beatpuncher looks interesting (demo sounds pretty good even though I can't get to the knobs) and it has the dry/mix knob I like for mixing in some rude compression when needed...

The demo version is limited to 14 days, but it is fully functional in that period and the controls should indeed be available and editable.

I've send you a PM.

Cheers,
Rune

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