hidden feature - group-tracks with full functionality

[atomota]

I think if someone who knows how to code VST just does a simple input to output with absolutely nothing else you should get something quite a bit smaller than my stupid thing.

Indeed. I coded a few VST effects a few years ago, the largest was a phaser at 83K. If no one else can find or write a passthru effect, I can do it, maybe even tonight if I can remember how. It would be fun to do something that actually got used.

[jens]

I think some things are just far too simple to ever notice. How long do you reckon we've been able to do this jens...forever? Probably!

probably for a very long time

who has still got a very old version to try it?

I've found an old 1.26 version - it already works that way - sub-grouping was always possible!

[atomota]

I think if someone who knows how to code VST just does a simple input to output with absolutely nothing else you should get something quite a bit smaller than my stupid thing.

Well that was easy. Pretty silly to want/need/use something like this though.

http://atomota.home.comcast.net/PassThru.zip

If anybody thinks this is actually useful, feel free to put it somewhere else. It probably won't be where it is for long.

[atomota]

Is this the same as loading an instance of eXTE to a midi track and then routing output of tracks you want to group to the eXTE track?

That's what it sounds like to me, like this:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 92#1354192

nope - it's not the same as in this thread...

There are several solutions in that thread. The one I pointed to sure seems to be what you're talking about. What's different? Maybe I'm not understanding your instructions:

- load the first insert you want to have in a group-track like a synth to a midi-track

This seems to mean "right-click a midi track header, select Output/Add/VST/whatever". Right? That's the same as the other solution so far. You can even delete or unroute the midi track at this point.

- route all tracks you want to group to this fx instead of to a master-out

This isn't so clear. For an audio track I take this to mean "right-click the track header and set Output/Audio Out 01" to the effect inserted in the first step. For a midi track, it could mean "right-click the track header and set the Output to the previously inserted effect". But that doesn't make sense nor does it seem to do anything useful.

So maybe it means "right-click the midi track's instruments in the mixer and set Outputs/Audio Out 01 to the previously inserted effect". Assuming that's correct, that sure seems to be the solution from the previous thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 96#1353096

But maybe it's that I understand your solution after all, but not the other solution. It did have some weird stuff about "open the EnergyXT plugin and right-click on the Input icon. Select Inputs and Outputs and add as many inputs as you want" and whatever else. I just kind of ignored that and made my setup look like the picture in the first link in this post and since that got everything working I stopped there and ended up by accident or ignorance with your solution, thinking I'd more or less done what I was supposed to do.

[jens]

Atomota, the big difference is that up to now the idea was that all group-insert-fx need to be loaded inside an instance of eXT vst which is loaded as an intrument into the sequencer. But the thruth (and it is a very simple one even if we all didn't realize it) is that the instrument itself which receives the stream doesn't need to do anything. It will pass all audio to its inserts (and sends) and after that to its selected output. So all you need is some kind of 'placeholder'-plugin which is loaded as an intrument. - just like the one you coded - thanks for that b.t.w. - rename this placeholder e.g. to 'vox-bus 1' and that's it. (the renaming is optional of course but makes it easier)

Did I manage to make things clearer now?

[duncanparsons]

I could do you one as well, if you like.. would a gain control be helpful? then you could use it like a proper group!

It could have a betabugs knob on.. so it would be a little bigger than a few K, but would incorporate something pretty - maybe -oo->+3dB?

pm me if you want it, it wouldn't take too long!

DSP

[atomota]

would a gain control be helpful? then you could use it like a proper group!

eXT already provides a gain control in the mixer. If you are happy with eXT's linear gain controls, that should be all you need.

jens - thanks for the inside/outside clarification. I didn't catch the insideness of the previous idea.

[Caleb]

Thanks for the plug-in. It's MUCH better to have a 72k plug-in than a 2Meg one - especially as it's doing nothing.

Well there you go - we have Group channels complete with a level, panning, inserts and sends.

The only thing I'm finding annoying is that unless you have all items in your mixer expanded all the time you are constantly expanding the group channels because they keep collapsing on you. It would be nice if the complete audio chain expanded on selecting a given track....but this will certainly do for the moment. Can't see much point in jorgen wasting his time on "real" group channels now.

Caleb

[soma]

One thing I don't get why does one need groups with a modular environment?
My approach (so far) has been to sequence in the sequencer, send everything out dry, and mix in the mian window. That's where XT excels. (now if we only could have seperate levels for each audio line!)

[plastique]

jens - thanks for the inside/outside clarification. I didn't catch the insideness of the previous idea.

me neither

[plastique]

One thing I don't get why does one need groups with a modular environment?
My approach (so far) has been to sequence in the sequencer, send everything out dry, and mix in the mian window. That's where XT excels. (now if we only could have seperate levels for each audio line!)

because you can benefit from the sequencer's rendering features afterwards (at least that's what matters to me here) which is capturing all that is inside the seq (and right so).

[atomota]

would a gain control be helpful? then you could use it like a proper group!

eXT already provides a gain control in the mixer. If you are happy with eXT's linear gain controls, that should be all you need.

Sorry, I lose. The eXT gain is post-insert chain, a gain on the "group insert" would be pre-insert chain. The former is probably "more proper", and the latter type of effect already exists (may not be easy to find though) since it's useful for trimming.

[atomota]

Thanks for the plug-in. It's MUCH better to have a 72k plug-in than a 2Meg one - especially as it's doing nothing.

Actually it is doing something, it has to copy the input to the output. I don't pretend to be a VST programming guru so maybe there is a better way. Now, if you could bypass it, then indeed nothing should happen.

The only thing I'm finding annoying is that unless you have all items in your mixer expanded all the time you are constantly expanding the group channels because they keep collapsing on you. It would be nice if the complete audio chain expanded on selecting a given track....but this will certainly do for the moment.

The situation may get better with a horizontal mixer.

Can't see much point in jorgen wasting his time on "real" group channels now.

They would be slightly more efficient, surely more intuitive, would operate more properly with solo/mute, would hopefully be easier to tell how things were routed (it is fiendishly difficult now), and would maybe even be usable as sends which for me would be just great.

[plastique]

This could be easily solved if the seq's outputs could be routed to each other (think for example: master out 3 -> master out 2 -> master out 1 (+ master fx as inserts)), where master out 1 would be the channel where rendering takes place.
No need for group channels anymore , I think ?

Together with this, to make it a more growing seq, there should also be:

- ability to set in-/outputs of loaded instruments (e.g. unlink stereo channels of VSTi/e) like you can in the main window
- audio parts get (back) multiple outputs (for compatibility reasons to main window as well)
- the automation possibilities that are often mentioned: insert-, send -amount etc. ...

[soma]

One thing I don't get why does one need groups with a modular environment?
My approach (so far) has been to sequence in the sequencer, send everything out dry, and mix in the mian window. That's where XT excels. (now if we only could have seperate levels for each audio line!)

because you can benefit from the sequencer's rendering features afterwards (at least that's what matters to me here) which is capturing all that is inside the seq (and right so).

Just wrap the whole thing in a sequencer...