Seven days, already two Auth codes used.

[james0tucson]

I infer that there is a limit of three auths for Sampletank LE. I've had it for seven days, and have already had to use two of them due to system upgrades. What will I do after the next one? I don't like the implication that my continued use of the product depends on someone else's approval. That doesn't sit right with me.

[telebunke]

don't worry, you'll get your codes.
What system upgrade did you do?

tele

[james0tucson]

don't worry, you'll get your codes.
What system upgrade did you do?

tele

All I did was upgrade the BIOS, and run the motherboard's chipset driver installer.

The idea of having to ask mommy for permission to run the software makes me feel like I've rented it for a period of time, not bought it. I don't like that, because I expect me and my music to outlive this company. But this looks like the company wants it to be otherwise...

[Funkybot]

Did you ever look at some of these software licenses? You really are just renting software for the most part. I can't stand the whole I changed my system I need a new code thing either, but it's still better than a dongle IMO (sorry, IK) and certainly better than the crap version of PACE that messes things up. I miss the ole days of simple serial numbers...

[Squids]

don't worry, you'll get your codes.
What system upgrade did you do?

tele

All I did was upgrade the BIOS, and run the motherboard's chipset driver installer.

The idea of having to ask mommy for permission to run the software makes me feel like I've rented it for a period of time, not bought it. I don't like that, because I expect me and my music to outlive this company. But this looks like the company wants it to be otherwise...

Obviously that system is in place so people don't take advantage of it blatantly. A lot of companies offer less than 3 auths btw. But, anyway, I've not known any legit user being stuck not being able to get an auth code. Just have to do it manually after 3 is all.

[Squids]

Did you ever look at some of these software licenses? You really are just renting software for the most part. I can't stand the whole I changed my system I need a new code thing either, but it's still better than a dongle IMO (sorry, IK) and certainly better than the crap version of PACE that messes things up. I miss the ole days of simple serial numbers...

Ironically a dongle allows you to wipe your system as much as you want and you don't need a new auth in that case but... either way I don't think everyone could be pleased. If it WAS just serials then people could just share their serial which of course the did/do.

You could just buy our sample collections though. We just simply trust. It's all we got. It still doesn't stop us from continuing to do it for you guys though. In fact, we're releasing a ton of sample libraries in the next few months.

[Funkybot]

Yeah each system has their own benefits, but I find dongles among the scariest. I don't mind challenge and response, because I generally have one music computer I do all my work on, and I try and keep it clean enough that I don't need to format it constantly (maybe a good registry cleaning every so often). Dongles are annoying though, cause if you own a lot of software that needs dongles you can end up with quite a few plugged in, and it could easily lead to hardware incompatibility issues, or other slow downs related to the bandwith being used by the USB ports, etc. The first rule of a good DAW is always "keep the system as powerful but as slim as possible" and dongles violate that rule. Though if you need to work on more than one machine I could see the dongle approach being a lot better than buying additional licenses.

My suggestion to IK would be for them to allow you to pick your own method (this would be quite innovating on their part). Basically, provide the dongle in the box, and upon installation ask people whether they want to use the dongle and have the option of taking the software with them on any machine, or using the stock IK C/R system. I'm only suggesting this because I know they'd never go the serial number or no protection routes, but this would at least be the best of both worlds + lesser of two evils approach. Just thinking out loud...

[james0tucson]

don't worry, you'll get your codes.
What system upgrade did you do?

tele

All I did was upgrade the BIOS, and run the motherboard's chipset driver installer.

The idea of having to ask mommy for permission to run the software makes me feel like I've rented it for a period of time, not bought it. I don't like that, because I expect me and my music to outlive this company. But this looks like the company wants it to be otherwise...

Obviously that system is in place so people don't take advantage of it blatantly. A lot of companies offer less than 3 auths btw. But, anyway, I've not known any legit user being stuck not being able to get an auth code. Just have to do it manually after 3 is all.

I'm thinking in terms of ten years down the road, if I want to duplicate the work I'm doing today, will I be able to run the software? If I *can't* run the software, I'd regard it as losing rights to my own creative work. I consider my rights to be of at least equal value to the software publisher's rights.

You have never heard of a letit user being stuck, but what if the user outlives the software publisher? I expect to do that.

[james0tucson]

You could just buy our sample collections though. We just simply trust. It's all we got. It still doesn't stop us from continuing to do it for you guys though. In fact, we're releasing a ton of sample libraries in the next few months.

Yes, I really like your material, but the problem I have, is that I feel I am surrendering my rights to my creative works by using IK stuff, because, way far down the road, when I may want to re-create something from today, and *can't* because the software can't be activated, because the company is long gone and the people responsible are all dead.

What recourse do we have? Can we get it in writing that when the company goes out of business, the activation will be permanent? That would settle it for me, actually.

[telebunke]

I think we can relax a little. I have seen companies that have been bought by others, like Steinberg, Wizoo and Emagic. But I don't remember a Company disappearing and noone carrying on it's products.

tele

[Kim Lajoie]

I'd like to say a bit about the potential risks of software companies disappearing.

There seems to be a bit of concern about Challenge-Response software protection - particularly that the software becomes unusable if the software company goes out of business.

This is definitely a valid concern. As others have stated - it's possible (however unlikely) that a software company such as IK might go out of business and leave its users with no way to authorise their software. For some people, it's very important to be able to use gear to make music for any length of time after purchase. For some, it's important to them to be able to revisit older music works. As I said, this is a valid concern and I agree that it's an important issue.

On the other hand, I'd like to throw a bit of perspective into this. In other threads on the internet, on KVR and other forums, people have become very narrow-sighted about this issue. Not you guys though - we really appreciate the civilised discussion that happens in our forum!

Anyway - some perspective. While the ability to continue using gear into the distant future is a concern for software - it's also a concern for hardware. It's not limited to IK, and it's not limited to Challenge-Response software. It's all across the board. It happens to hardware - if your hardware gets broken or stolen, then you lose your ability to recall your projects, you lose your ability to work with it in the future. If the hardware company goes out of business, then sometimes spare parts can become unavailable, and it might be very difficult to buy a new one.

Of course, it's not exactly the same - hardware can (sometimes) be repaired. There's also a healthy second-hand market for popular hardware equipment. On the other hand, software doesn't wear out after use. If your computer dies or your laptop gets stolen on a gig, then in most cases you can simply buy a new computer and install all your software again.

I'm not saying hardware or software is better or worse. All I'm saying is that there are risks with each, and we shouldn't vilify IK or other software companies because there are some future risks in using software. No-one complains to Boss "Hey man, if I lose my distortion pedal, will you give me a new one free?"

The other thing I'd like to point out is that it IS possible to have "endless" persistence with software. Simply keep a dedicated computer for it, and never upgrade it or change the configuration. Treat it like hardware, and it will behave like hardware. You only have to worry about parts breaking, which is a similar risk to "real" hardware anyway. This is actually a very successful solution. There are plenty of people who keep a dedicated computer for old soundcards (such and Korg's OASYS PCI) which require an older operating system. Many other people are keeping old Macs to run OS9-only software. It works, and people are doing it for production systems.

If you are specially concerned that you will outlive IK (not just aimed at you James!), then set up a dedicated computer, install your software, and then never change the configuration. Sampletank will run forever, regardless of whether IK is here or not.

Personally, I'd rather use the most recent software available.

-Kim.