KVR Audio

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:04 pm

fritzman wrote: Hi Midiworks,

nice try. But unfortunately not well done. Your SynthEdit plugin doesn't even look goo, but hey that's just my taste. Is it still not possible with SynthEdit to compile all additional modules into one dll?
It sounds poor. It's buggy. It does not sound as good as Antares Duo and it doesn't even mimic all of it's functionality so how can it be an Antares clone?
Sorry man, but obviously it's you who didn't do his R&D. If you would have done so you would have recognized that Antares is using a completely different DSP technique than you. It's way more complicated than your delay gimmick. A little delay feedback is far from the vocal timbre in Antares Duo. It doesn't even remotely sound similar.
But you wanted me to compare it, so I did.
In the end your plugin is a chorus with a random LFO plus a short delay with a feedback knob which you call Vocal timbre.

Do you wanna know why I'm so upset? Because I hate it when people fake stuff and then have a big mouth full of wannabe marketing. Do you remember all the kids in the music shop playing smoke on the water? Ain't talking bout love? Everybody played it but only a few played it convincingly. That's my point.
YOU imply that your plugin is at least as good as Antares Duo if not better, it doesn't have this and that prob, etc. After comparing I found out that your plugin is a buggy alpha version of a wannabe Antares clone. Alpha means: All functionality is implemented. In your plugin is NOT all of the Antares functionality implemented, your vocal timbre knob is a joke. A beta version is feature complete bus is not fully tested. Your plugin is not fully tested as it's really buggy.

OK, that's it for now. And yes, I'm with Hink. I would be VERY surprised if your amp plugin will be as good as you would like it to be. Learn some DSP stuff. This would help in many ways.

Best wishes, FRitz

P.S. This is not personally against you. Please see this as constructive critizism. I simply don't like it to get taken for a ride.

OOOOHhh Fritzi!

Why did you take my manner of ranting about the dudes?

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;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:16 pm

No crackles, no strange phase shifting like the original AVOX DUO.

And your delay based pitch shifter don't modyfy the phases badly anyhow ???
That's ridiculous.

But hey! Why not simply "clone" that throat modeling thingy from Antares with some oscillator and reverb modules in SE ??? Can be easiely toped ...

.

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:42 pm

He distributes 3rd Party SE modules (renamed - which is already a copyright injury) with his (commecial!) SE stuff.

I guess, he also did not credit those 3rd parties in his plugin, nor donate ...

I'd really like to know, whether he is a legal user of those modules.

Otherwise there would no need to modyfy them, right?

Bad, really.

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Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:46 pm

I would suggest that you re-think your wording. You've made an unfounded accusation full of guesswork and assumptions about rights and usage for 3rd party modules, but not everyone is able to see that. Some people may take you at face value.

One of the key words in your post was "guess".

Not trying to get in your face, but really now...

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:49 pm

It's easy to change the name without cracking the modules. You just have to rename them. I'd guess he's changed the names so he doesn't have to share the glory of credit. Rene's pretty active at the SE users list, I'd be surprised if he was doing anything bad.

It is slightly unfriendly not to credit the module developers. Judging from the parameters exposed for automation, at least one is an EVM module.

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:52 pm

Ok there is no pronlem with EVM modules, but probably with Chris Kerry modules?

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;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:54 pm

Lunch Money wrote:I would suggest that you re-think your wording. You've made an unfounded accusation full of guesswork and assumptions about rights and usage for 3rd party modules, but not everyone is able to see that. Some people may take you at face value.

One of the key words in your post was "guess".

Not trying to get in your face, but really now...

Not exactly. Because I actually did see the strange renamed modules and made a binary readout of them therefore.

That is what I got:

Code: Select all

By using this module you agree to abide by all aspects of the license

License Agreement:
This module is provided as is with no warranty of any kind
The use of this module is entirely at your own risk
You may not distribute this module in any way or by whatever means
You may not View,Modify or Copy any of the code in this module
This module is only for use in SynthEdit and VST/i's created by SynthEdit,
the use of this module elsewhere is strictly forbidden

If this module is used in a VST/i please donate at www.chriskerry.f9.co.uk
If no donation is made for the use of this module in each VST/i,
the following credit must be displayed:-

This VST/i features modules by Chris Kerry
www.chriskerry.f9.co.uk

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:56 pm

;-) wrote:but probably with Cris Kerry modules?

Chris has a complicated licensing arrangement, so as long as Rene donated specifically to hide credit on this plugin, I think he doesn't have to give credit.

Chris's licensing has changed over the years, so that may be different now. I can't keep track (why I rarely ever use 3rd party modules any more, too much software to to keep straight).

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:57 pm

shamann wrote:It's easy to change the name without cracking the modules. You just have to rename them. I'd guess he's changed the names so he doesn't have to share the glory of credit. Rene's pretty active at the SE users list, I'd be surprised if he was doing anything bad.

It is slightly unfriendly not to credit the module developers. Judging from the parameters exposed for automation, at least one is an EVM module.

SE modules are redistributables, right?
I think it *is* an copyright injury to rename them intentionally in most cases, because that is modification in fact.

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;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:01 pm

shamann wrote:
;-) wrote:but probably with Cris Kerry modules?
Chris has a complicated licensing arrangement, so as long as Rene donated specifically to hide credit on this plugin, I think he doesn't have to give credit.

Chris's licensing has changed over the years, so that may be different now. I can't keep track (why I rarely ever use 3rd party modules any more, too much software to to keep straight).

Why does he rename all SE modules to appear DAT20.SEP, DAT21.SEM, DAT22.SEM, DAT23.SEM then ?

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shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:03 pm

;-) wrote:SE modules are redistributables, right?
I think it *is* an copyright injury to rename them intentionally.

Possibly. I'm not sure copyright extends that far, since changing a filename is a trivial matter, and the module libraries that distribute with a plugin are crippled, so it is only a matter of obfuscation, rather than infringing on anyone's rights.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:07 pm

;-) wrote:Why does he rename all SE modules to appear DAT20.SEP, DAT21.SEM, DAT22.SEM, DAT23.SEM then ?

I guess so that no one knows he's using Chris and Etric's modules. He wouldn't be the first SE user to do so. Some SE users seem to find it aggravating to share their glory with the module coders.

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:12 pm

hmmmnnn ... a quick look at chriss license forbids modification of the CODE ...

You may not View, Modify or Copy any of the code in this module

... but doesnt mention renaming etc ... so this would be within the LETTER or such a license but not within the SPIRIT of it certainly ...

slainte

rob

;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:19 pm

shamann wrote:
;-) wrote:Why does he rename all SE modules to appear DAT20.SEP, DAT21.SEM, DAT22.SEM, DAT23.SEM then ?
I guess so that no one knows he's using Chris and Etric's modules. He wouldn't be the first SE user to do so. Some SE users seem to find it aggravating to share their glory with the module coders.

Well.
I think that too, because there is no need to rename SE modules.
This also would tend to confuse you with the content of your SE module folder quite a bit.

But if he really payed a donation PRIOR distributing his plugin, then I am ready to excuse me for my guessing.

But in the "Chris Kerry case" he had to do a donation FOR EACH new plugin he redistributes. Otherwise a credit must be displayed.

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;-) · Post by **;-)** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:31 pm

I mean on the other side he writes that in his license:

2. RESTRICTIONS.

The SOFTWARE is confidential and copyrighted and is owned by the author.
Title to the SOFTWARE and all associated intellectual property
rights is retained by the author. You may not make
copies of the SOFTWARE. You may not modify, decompile,
or reverse engineer the SOFTWARE.

You may not distribute the SOFTWARE in any form or in any way.

In particular, you may not sell, hire or lease the SOFTWARE.

Quite strict.

I always did see such things coming. SE creations are (mostly) merely done like usual documents. Not much different like a Word document or an Excel sheet...

I mean he did not develop a software program at all. He merely did track virtual patch cables arround and saved a document.

The plugin dll itselfes is actually only a precompiled copy, where the resources are patched with SE on the fly ...

There is not even a "compiling" (in the sense of native software compilers) made at all.

But the fact, that they are distributed in binary (native executable) form is quite a problem for the software copyright. Especially in the case of the used external modules.

It should have a reason too, that the modules will dumped out to disk permanently on first plugin start.

I wished it would be more clear all here.

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DuosX VST Voice Doubler