Yup. Saw a lot of assumptions, not many of which have any justifiable basis.haydxn wrote:i've got to say that i find this whole argument pretty pointless and unnecessary.
To all devs: Stop plugin fickleness
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35523 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
I have no use for either presets or video tutorials. I think the market is fine as it is, if maybe a bit crowded. But if someone wants to buy any crap with a price tag, more power to them.
Why is this the real issue facing computer musicians? I would have thought more pressing was coming up with more efficient means of controlling, integrating or customizing kit, finding sustainable ways for musicians to earn a living as such, etc.
Why is this the real issue facing computer musicians? I would have thought more pressing was coming up with more efficient means of controlling, integrating or customizing kit, finding sustainable ways for musicians to earn a living as such, etc.
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- KVRian
- 1004 posts since 2 Aug, 2004 from Sweden
I like patches, lots of them. But it is essential that the VSTi has easy managing and sorting. F.e. some sort of grouping where a patch can belong to several groups - preferrably also userdefined. There has to be lots of better ways to manage this than are already out there, but I guess devs don't focus on that part (actually for ws2 improving on this was a huge part)...
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35523 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
So have we stopped plugins from being 'fickle' yet?
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 7317 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
I like lots of presets, but I don't use them straight out of the tin. With EnergyXT its always good for writers block, to use the preset morphing features in the randomizer. You can breed your own presets from "parents" ... and that is why a lot of presets is good.
My Youtube Channel - Wires Dream Disasters
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- KVRian
- 1398 posts since 9 Dec, 2002
My take on elitism... I find users who base their purchase based on the amount of presets perhaps being in the wrong business/hobby, and I especially find users whose first question about a product is always "how many presets", followed by complaints if the price/presets ratio isn't to their liking, being ... expletive deleted.
Phew, there
Me, I'm definitely not against presets. The more the merrier, always a source of inspiration. The more designers contributing to the presets, the better the outcome.
While at it... I wish people hadn't forgotten what the word 'preset' means - addons and user contributions later on aren't presets, damn it
(not targeted on anyone directly nor to this thread per se - I've just noticed that it's slowly being used to mean any kind of sounds/patches/whatever... how anal can one get about names 
)
And video tutorials rock. Depending on the product of course, I can't really understand the need for a video tutorial for the average synths, but hosts and other more complex beasts, that's when videos start to rock - I especially like the way FXPansion does it, you get a good view on how the product works beforehand - that is, if you don't feel like test driving a demo version
Bitch mode off
JMH
Phew, there
Me, I'm definitely not against presets. The more the merrier, always a source of inspiration. The more designers contributing to the presets, the better the outcome.
While at it... I wish people hadn't forgotten what the word 'preset' means - addons and user contributions later on aren't presets, damn it
(not targeted on anyone directly nor to this thread per se - I've just noticed that it's slowly being used to mean any kind of sounds/patches/whatever... how anal can one get about names )And video tutorials rock. Depending on the product of course, I can't really understand the need for a video tutorial for the average synths, but hosts and other more complex beasts, that's when videos start to rock - I especially like the way FXPansion does it, you get a good view on how the product works beforehand - that is, if you don't feel like test driving a demo version
Bitch mode off
JMH
Now available with added Inherently Suspect Justification!
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- KVRAF
- 3964 posts since 31 Aug, 2003 from In a foreign town, in a foreign land
Isn't this issue as old as the add-on cards for the DX 7?
Maybe the idea is to stop regarding presets as premade sounds, but as example patches. Certainly taught me a thing or two. Or three.
There are no video tutorials for most of the instruments I use, and even though they might be helpful, I haven't missed them. Much.
Groet, Erik
Maybe the idea is to stop regarding presets as premade sounds, but as example patches. Certainly taught me a thing or two. Or three.
There are no video tutorials for most of the instruments I use, and even though they might be helpful, I haven't missed them. Much.
Groet, Erik
Pop music delenda est.
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original flipper original flipper https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8999
- KVRAF
- 2544 posts since 14 Sep, 2003 from Essex
HI
When I had my SY85 keyboard/synth, it had 256 pre-set sounds and 128 combi sounds (multi-layered pre-sets) - now I never really got to know ALL those sounds very well, in fact I could barely remember which bank had what sound!
I know hardware synths tended to have unintuitive mini lcd screens; so it is not surprising one did not worry too much about huge quantities of the things.
What dissapoints me with some software is the lack of a well organized browser.
2,500 pre-sets is not a real issue if they are categorized - the issue is: if they are just thrown into banks where you have no clue what your getting.
I also like the idea of having a quick and easy way of putting your favorite pre-sets into 'blank or spare' banks quickly and with a minimum fuss.
I think one area that is still pretty unexplored by many developers is customizable browsers or at least something that gives you access and info on pre-sets, allows you to preview and move them around into folders/banks to suit your needs - also things like the amount of pre-sets on view at any one time is sometimes quite laughable - who wants to see 10 pre-sets at a time?
Flipper.
When I had my SY85 keyboard/synth, it had 256 pre-set sounds and 128 combi sounds (multi-layered pre-sets) - now I never really got to know ALL those sounds very well, in fact I could barely remember which bank had what sound!
I know hardware synths tended to have unintuitive mini lcd screens; so it is not surprising one did not worry too much about huge quantities of the things.
What dissapoints me with some software is the lack of a well organized browser.
2,500 pre-sets is not a real issue if they are categorized - the issue is: if they are just thrown into banks where you have no clue what your getting.
I also like the idea of having a quick and easy way of putting your favorite pre-sets into 'blank or spare' banks quickly and with a minimum fuss.
I think one area that is still pretty unexplored by many developers is customizable browsers or at least something that gives you access and info on pre-sets, allows you to preview and move them around into folders/banks to suit your needs - also things like the amount of pre-sets on view at any one time is sometimes quite laughable - who wants to see 10 pre-sets at a time?
Flipper.
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363 - KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
My Fantom X6 has well over 1500 presets, not including all the SRX expansion cards I've shoved into it.
It's not a plugin issue, it's a "modern instrument" issue for large-scale workstation-style do-it-all synths, whether software OR hardware.
Me, I like presets because I can barely sound-design my way out of a paper bag, not to mention that I find inspiration sometimes from just browsing presets...
I'd say my biggest challenge as a computer musician is controlling the damn synths I already have! Oh god of control surfaces, give me better interface hardware!
It's not a plugin issue, it's a "modern instrument" issue for large-scale workstation-style do-it-all synths, whether software OR hardware.
Me, I like presets because I can barely sound-design my way out of a paper bag, not to mention that I find inspiration sometimes from just browsing presets...
I'd say my biggest challenge as a computer musician is controlling the damn synths I already have! Oh god of control surfaces, give me better interface hardware!
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
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- Rad Grandad
- 38041 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
I had audio cassettes that came with my DX-7 when I bought it (I've since sold it), I use to listen to them in my car while trying to learn to create my own tones with the DX-7...It was tough in the car without a visual example...cptgone wrote:Good point I guess. But I don't think vids are enough to get to know a synth - only practice can get you there.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35523 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
True. In fact, if you're not prepared to solder and wire boards in your own modular synth, you're just a lazy fucker.lion_cub wrote:People that want more presets are just plain lazy. No wonder we've got so many plugins and so many presets because many people can't be bothered programming.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 12235 posts since 18 Aug, 2003
Well, there's still a difference between building a house and painting it.whyterabbyt wrote:True. In fact, if you're not prepared to solder and wire boards in your own modular synth, you're just a lazy fucker.
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- KVRAF
- 13446 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Thing is, I don't mind presets at all. But, apart from what I said above (about proper tutorials and such...), programmers should offer easier access to all those not being all that familiar with synth programming.
THE prime example for such a thing: NIs FM7. You don't actually need to know how to program a sound from scratch as there's the Easy Edit page, giving you access to "non-synth-internal-" but "musically-" sounding parameters of a patch.
That's the way to get the most out of a few well programmed basic patches. In most working situations I really don't need to know I may have to raise filter cutoff and add some more op-A-to-op-B influencing, just to get my sound a bit more "harmonic" or "brighter" - because, all I want is a tad more brightness, and I certainly got no time to dive into the deepness of a given patch when all I want is to arrange a tune.
So, in addition to all those fine presets, what I'd need is an easy way to make them suit my song. FM7 is just perfect regarding that aspect.
THE prime example for such a thing: NIs FM7. You don't actually need to know how to program a sound from scratch as there's the Easy Edit page, giving you access to "non-synth-internal-" but "musically-" sounding parameters of a patch.
That's the way to get the most out of a few well programmed basic patches. In most working situations I really don't need to know I may have to raise filter cutoff and add some more op-A-to-op-B influencing, just to get my sound a bit more "harmonic" or "brighter" - because, all I want is a tad more brightness, and I certainly got no time to dive into the deepness of a given patch when all I want is to arrange a tune.
So, in addition to all those fine presets, what I'd need is an easy way to make them suit my song. FM7 is just perfect regarding that aspect.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
