KVR Audio

HanafiH · Post by **HanafiH** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:59 pm

Sascha Franck wrote: So, in addition to all those fine presets, what I'd need is an easy way to make them suit my song. FM7 is just perfect regarding that aspect.

I'd go along with the idea of being able to qualify presets better. There's generally three schools: the strict teutonic with a thousand presets named sequentially PARP000 to PARP999 inclusive. Useless, unworkable. The Field of dreams - PurpleMahoganyVision, JanesLamentForTuesday, WarbleZeitungVicar, and so on - WTF does that mean. Or the grovelling homage - "Just Like Wot Kraftwerk Used On Neon Tubes, SoundsLikeJohnDanielsSpirit - I want to sound like me.

Some kind of better classification and browsing would help.

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:03 pm

Mentioning a good patch browser is a good point indeed. Personally,drag'n'drop is far from good - how many of us really have file manager and host simultaneously on screen? And not everybody is on dual monitor setups yet - and if they were, the second monitor would most likely be used for mor screen estate for the host...

And good organisation is another good point. It's ok if there are a dozen banks full of sounds, but once you want to assemble the usable/good ones to your own banks, you hit a brickwall with most synths... the way things are done with Albino and Synth1 are the way to go (although Synth1 could benefit from having patch names as filenames to make it even better).

On a related note... silly limits to bank sizes are another peeve - I'd rather have all my favorite stuff assembled to a single bank that's loaded on startup (crap, yet another point missed by a lot of developers, being able to assign a default bank!) and not worry about having to load different banks just to go thru the stuff I've labeled as useful.

It's even worse with hardware though, it's hilarious when a hardware synth has more multisample setups available than patches

One frustrating thing with this synth I'm just evaluating is the limited memory, 128 patches plus additional 64 on a proprietary memory card, urgh. (And no, using one more application besides my host isn't exactly inspiring or handy - and I'm not about to ask the developers to come up with a sysex patch handler either that could meet my or others' needs, as there are tons more important things that could be done before something that wouldn't likely be necessary to that many folks.)

Regards,

JMH

lion_cub · Post by **lion_cub** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:04 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Thing is, I don't mind presets at all. But, apart from what I said above (about proper tutorials and such...), programmers should offer easier access to all those not being all that familiar with synth programming.
THE prime example for such a thing: NIs FM7. You don't actually need to know how to program a sound from scratch as there's the Easy Edit page, giving you access to "non-synth-internal-" but "musically-" sounding parameters of a patch.
That's the way to get the most out of a few well programmed basic patches. In most working situations I really don't need to know I may have to raise filter cutoff and add some more op-A-to-op-B influencing, just to get my sound a bit more "harmonic" or "brighter" - because, all I want is a tad more brightness, and I certainly got no time to dive into the deepness of a given patch when all I want is to arrange a tune.

So, in addition to all those fine presets, what I'd need is an easy way to make them suit my song. FM7 is just perfect regarding that aspect.

Sascha,

You do have to dive a bit deeper to distinguish yourself from everyone else though. But you are right, FM7 has been well designed in that regard.

rogerperrin · Post by **rogerperrin** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:05 pm

Hmmmmm, in this day and age of specialization there are not enough hours in the day to do it all in an excellent fashion, and at the end of the day what matters most to an individual is ....

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:11 pm

lion_cub wrote:You do have to dive a bit deeper to distinguish yourself from everyone else though.

Unless you choose to distinguish yourself in other ways than novel sounds (such as playing, composition, arrangement, etc).

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:20 pm

jmh wrote:Mentioning a good patch browser is a good point indeed. Personally,drag'n'drop is far from good - how many of us really have file manager and host simultaneously on screen? And not everybody is on dual monitor setups yet - and if they were, the second monitor would most likely be used for mor screen estate for the host...

I TOTALLY agree on the browser thing!
It's ridiculous how close to no developer seems to even give a shit about.

A proper patch browser should offer a bunch of things:
- Scrolling through patches with your up/down arrows. As soon as you touch the patch area those should be reserved for the presets rather than still being active for the host (this *is* possible).
- Preview in context. No stupid "OK" or "load" buttons. As soon as the patch gets selected, it should sound. In context. Again, this is possible, so there's no excuses not to have a wonderful thing like this. But, this brings up the last point:
- Recall of previously loaded patch! Unless I press "ok", "commit" or whatever a given patch browser might require, I demand an option to ALLWAYS return to the previously loaded patch!

All these things ARE possible. All these things ARE things ALL users would benefit from.
As a result: Any developer offering a plugin which sort of lives from a broad existing patch base ignoring such things is just ignoring something truly important and should be kicked pretty much seriously!

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:25 pm

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:27 pm

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cold c · Post by **cold c** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:29 pm

HanafiH wrote: Some kind of better classification and browsing would help.

You mean like a better version of gnoosic for synth patches and synths?

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:32 pm

original flipper wrote:2,500 pre-sets is not a real issue if they are categorized - the issue is: if they are just thrown into banks where you have no clue what your getting.

I also like the idea of having a quick and easy way of putting your favorite pre-sets into 'blank or spare' banks quickly and with a minimum fuss.

The Powercore Virus has every preset categorized in banks. Better still, it has favorites banks as well as a recently used bank. Once you're in a bank, it's easy to up/down scroll through every preset within that bank. The only downside is that the presets aren't selectable from within Cubase's Inspector window, I can understand that switching banks from the Inspector would probably not be possible but it seems like scrolling through the presets once you're in a bank shouldn't be a problem. btw, the TimewARP 2600 & (I believe) the Arturia stuff have similar bank-style categories (though they're not as quick to work with as the Virus's), & I seem to remember them also not working in the Inspector.

The Powercore Virus has an Easy Edit page like Sascha mentioned. Personally, I skip right past it & don't normally use any straight presets, but I do like to scroll through presets as starting points. I've been programming sounds for about 16 years now, I can program any analog-style synth in seconds but I also tend to gravitate to the same kinds of sounds every time. It's nice to start out with presets that might inspire different kinds of ideas.

topaz · Post by **topaz** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:39 pm

Video manuals are good,
but not when you ONLY get a video manual.

who really wants to have to flick thru a video each time they want to check out a function.

presets are good if they are organised properly with relevant names.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:19 pm

Why do you buy a synth? For the sounds it can make. What are presets? The sounds a synth makes.

Remember Kevvv owns a VIDEO PRODUCTION COMPANY.

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:24 pm

No one yet seems to have explained why people are so fickle about plugs.

Yet we all chop and change with increasing regularity.

Plug-whoredom is a common topic here.

I believe a lot of this is down to the fact we often don't understand our plugs properly, picking them up and throwing them down like bored toys.

I certainly don't mind admitting that this is sometimes true for me.

As for presets - well - some of my best friends are presets - but mostly I get bored to death with endless flicking through lists.

Many presets are repetitive or totally unmusical or just gimmicks.

Very few actually contain the germ of a killer sound.

Increasingly it's my own plug skill that finds the killer sound I'm looking for.

I'd like to be taught how to do this better.

Which is why I'd like devs to take notice.

I find pdf manuals are a drag for anything other than quick desperate reference.

And usually they simply list functions without describing what the functions - or combinations of functions - actually mean in terms of what you hear.

I've lost count of the days and days and days I've spent patiently wading through plug manuals.

I'd like better.

And while some people here obviously don't like video, the scientific evidence says the majority do.

So ... more video, please.

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:25 pm

Hi Eric ... long time no see

fritzman · Post by **fritzman** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:29 pm

Teksonik wrote:Why do you buy a synth? For the sounds it can make. What are presets? The sounds a synth makes.

Remember Kevvv owns a VIDEO PRODUCTION COMPANY.

To all devs: Stop plugin fickleness