To all devs: Stop plugin fickleness

[Meffy]

No one yet seems to have explained why people are so fickle about plugs.

Well... I can't because I'm not "fickle about plugs." :-) And I'm not sure that "people," in general, are fickle either.

I've accumulated a collection of synths and sample players and effects that I like, and plan to keep 'em. I like learning to use them, but some just plain elude me. There's no reason I can see not to use quality presets... unless they sound hackneyed or don't fit the styles of music I work in.

As I said earlier, everyone's different. Some people change plug-ins like they change their underwear. Others, like me, stay with what we know and like*. I honestly don't think a lack of video tutorials is a major contributor to the ways of the majority of "flitting sippers" (thank you, P.G. Wodehouse, Jeeves, and Bertie Wooster). Do you have any actual evidence that this is the case?
______________
* ... with respect to music software, that is. I change underwear daily or, in hot weather, even more often. :-D

[Teksonik]

No, Developers should provide more presets. Preferrably from third party programmers.

[Teksonik]

No one yet seems to have explained why people are so fickle about plugs.

Many presets are repetitive or totally unmusical or just gimmicks.

Very few actually contain the germ of a killer sound.

So ... more video, please.

1. No one has explained why I should care if people
are fickle about their plugins.

2. Perhaps it's not the presets that are unmusical.

3. Your Opinion. Define "Killer Sound"

4. Trying to drum up business?

[shamann]

I think developers should do as they see fit. It isn't like any of us are beholden to the other. I'm amazed at some of the $200 crap out there, but then I see lots of folk fall all over it. Why I want is what you want. Shocking!

I'd like to see better reference manuals, and fewer instructional/tutorial manuals. Give me a list of what's there and what it does, and people to get to it but right clicking on the function in the GUI (or that little Windows '?'), and that's it.

I'm not particularly fickle about much. I've used Audiomulch, Vaz Modular, and Sound Forge for years now. Don't plan on stopping any time soon.

I can't stand video tutorials for anything more than a good marketing device (see the Guru videos FXpansion made, very good at showing you what Guru does). I would not buy software if its help only came in video format. I would not install video tutorials if the installer came with an option.

Apparently, I am not explained by science.

[glurgle]

@ teksonik

Personally I find videos to be a bit tedious, it's annoying to have to sit and watch somebody else do twiddle the knobs. The thing I really like is the flash overviews, that let you hover over different buttons/knobs and it tells you what they do. I think if some clever person were to combine this kind of pop-up help into their synths, that would be a step forward.

However, one of the nice things about video tutorials is they can show you new ways to work with a plug. Often I will see things I would've taken months to find on my own.

The perfect solution would be a combination of pop-up help and prerecorded automation. So a user could open a file that would include a patch, a bunch of automated movements, and some pop up text, all within the app/plugin. As far as multimedia education goes, videos are an improvement on plain text, or audio or whatever, but combining multiple media in a way that allows the user/student to control the pacing (this is critical) is more effective than anything, and would definitely create the kind of users kevvvvvvv was talking about in the original post.

[shamann]

And how will any of this change a user's fickleness for plugins? How do we know any of them are fickle because they don't have the right kind of instructional material?

[kevvvvv]

fritzman

Teksonik wrote:
Why do you buy a synth? For the sounds it can make. What are presets? The sounds a synth makes.

Remember Kevvv owns a VIDEO PRODUCTION COMPANY.

Yeah ... I do own a video production company. My customers are mostly fatcat corporations.

Having made hundreds of videos I know from first hand how good video is as an educational medium.

It's usually the medium of choice, but has traditionally been expensive and difficult.

Until the recent rise of digital camcorders and low cost desktop editing.

Any dev can now get his head around these tools, if the will is there.

FXpansion and Spectrasonics have led the way, and I'm sure it cost them very little.

Which other devs might take up on video?

Well, if a dev is committed to doing an AU verson, then why not be totally professional and do a video too.

Just don't ask me to do it

...

For anyone who's interested.

Video's (or multimedia) advantages over other training methods are:

- It takes less time to learn a given amount of info than using other methods. Video is concise.

- People learn by copying. That's how humanity does its thing. By copying. Video is copying in its most direct effective form.

- Video is repeateable. Once you've got the message right, it'll always be right.

- As mentioned before, classic BBC rsearch asserts that video is remembered better than anything else. Video is memorable.

[fritzman]

I think it depends.
I don't change my plugins for the changing sake. I made 1000+ presets for several synths so I can program my stuff. There are plugins I simply keep because they are good enough to stand the test of time.
On the other hand I'm looking for certain sonic qualities and when a plugin comes along that gets closer to my ideals (existant or imaginary) I want that. This way it happens from time to time that I don't use certain plugins anymore.
Yes, there are interfaces that I like, certain workflows, certain looks that work better for me than others.
A preset browser that is really good is worth a lot especially when there are lots of presets. Sascha, I also like your ideas about prelistening presets in context and all that you wrote, very clever.

I have to stand on the side of the devs for a moment (not being one and not being on a payroll of one ATM). I know that tutorials that are well made are really time consuming in production. So this is either done by the dev him/herself or someone gets hired for that. In both cases it costs some serious money. I've got no good overview over the benefit of such an investment.

My guess is that we won't see too much of such stuff in the future. We are living in the everything-NOW-age so I think that people who really want to do their own stuff and even learn something seriously (and programming a synth is something that takes quite some time) are quite rare. And then making things so general that advanced users could be bored fast because it doesn't go their direction isn't a good thing either. I say it's not an easy task. Basic stuff like VCO-VCF-VCA is easily taught and the beginner who doesn't know that is thankful for that. But what with FM? "OK folks, now we will programm a bell sound." Customer:"Wah, I don't want bells I want ..."
You got my point.


Best wishes, FRitz

[shamann]

I thought smell was remembered better than anything else?

[Meffy]

=9_9= kevvv(n), as mentioned before, PEOPLE DIFFER. For me, video is all but useless. Not one of your points applies to me. And surely I'm not the only person for whom this is true.

Now, how about it -- got any factual evidence to support your claims that "people are fickle" because of too many presets and too few video tutorials? Or is this entire confection based on your personal opinions, suppositions, and unwarranted assumptions?

[edit] This sounds more hostile than I intended. I disagree very strongly with your premises, but am not trying to be overly confrontational or nasty. Just so y'know. :-)

[fritzman]

Why not making a poll who is fickle about their plugins?

@Kev: man, I only made a joke. Nothing against your business and nothing against video tuts. I do learn fast from a good video. Given it's GOOD.


Best wishes, FRitz

[original flipper]

HI

Thinking about it for a while - perhaps in some cases; maybe 'a' problem might be that many programs do not evolve 'DOWN' but rather become ever so more complex?

I mean - how often does an update of a half decent synth come along with the sales pitch: "vastly improved sound quality/ergenomics/usability (otherwise unchanged)"?

OR

"Same presets .... but hear the difference" - in test's 49 out of 50 people noticed a 12.5 - 47.25% increase in overall yumminess?

Actually I have lost track of not only what my point was; but of what the f...... thread was about.

Flipper.

[shamann]

Something to do with pickles, I think.

[fritzman]

...

OR

"Same presets .... but hear the difference" - in test's 49 out of 50 people noticed a 12.5 - 47.25% increase in overall yumminess?
...
Flipper.

Yah,

that's cool. More yumminess.


Best wishes, FRitz

[ugo]

No one yet seems to have explained why people are so fickle about plugs.

Yet we all chop and change with increasing regularity.

Plug-whoredom is a common topic here.

I believe a lot of this is down to the fact we often don't understand our plugs properly, picking them up and throwing them down like bored toys.

i believe you are correct in that we often dont learn to properly use our vstis. but there is more to it than just not knowing how to use them. if we wanted to learn, we would. most vsti's have at least reasonable basic manuals and a whole lot can be learned just from trying...but we often dont bother to try.

as much as some here complain about the prices of plugins, the majority of them are way cheeper than hardware ever was/is. back in the hardware days, i had no choice but to either use the same handfull of presets forever or learn to program my own because it was unlikely that i'd be able to afford to go buy another great synth every few months.

sure, i dreamed of having lots more gear. i lusted over many a hardware synth (and bass, and guitar, and...), but there simply was no way i could afford to buy most of them. (though i did what i could. )

however, software synths are relatively/comparitively inexpensive, and many are nearly instantly accessable. this has fed my addiction and encourraged impulse buys, as well as given me less incentive to learn how to better use what i've got. its just so easy to buy something new, and it seems like there is always something new to buy.

so i didnt buy more stuff because i didnt have good tutorials for what i had, its because low cost, high accessability, and wide variety have helped feed my addiction and fostered pre-existing lazy habits.

i have always been guilty of not spending enough time programming my own sounds. i do it from time to time but, more often than not, when i sit down to do something music related i usually want to spend my time trying to write a song, not programming patches. oddly enough, the rest of my time is spent making stuff in synthedit. so im either trying to make music, or make software to make music with, but i somehow seem to always be crapping out on the the middle part...making patches.

of course, if i programmed more patches, i might write more music (since im often drawn to writing with the sounds i made.) i've been thinking of trying to make a habit or schedule of synth programming. perhaps setting myself a small weekly quota. something small enough that its easilly obtainable, but enough to keep me learning, experimenting, and creating a larger amount of my own sounds to write with.

-ugo