Post Sonar 5 thoughts here

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

Yes being a software dev makes me ignorant..

Uh, well considering the extremely basic c++ questions you asked over at the devs forum, I wouldn't wave with that flag...
Comparing EXT and Sonar is just silly, naturally a bigger company like Cakewalk/Edirol has a lot more organisational overhead than a one man business that distributes its software online only. Of course everyone is trying to make some profit but calling that a ripoff is a stretch, I think.
Now, since I haven't ordered my upgrade from 4PE yet, please stop spoiling this thread, as I'd like to hear some more about Sonar 5

So i asked basic questions regarding C++ so i must not be a dev in a different language? Very intelligent. I will probably order my upgrade as well but it doesnt mean that some people arent getting ripped off. As for the 'basic' c++ questions i asked.. Which one: returning a reference? Did you provide an answer. Was it the one where i wanted to be able to find the memory location of the parent that contains an object without having to put a pointer in the child class to the parent? The one that does not have an existing solution otherwise?

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

I can just imagine rabit sitting in his little gothed out bedroom in his parents' house trying to brainstorm a list of really big words to try to impress me and trick people into thinking he's intelligent.

[ericj23]

this ia all very funny - you give rabbit a "lesson" in replying

and then try and dismmiss someone becuase they didn't answer your problem

your trolling standards are slipping - must try harder

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

No, I wasn't dismissing him for not answering i was just asking.. He might be able to answer better than some of the others.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

ericj23:

Suppose my expense estimations were modest.. Then you must also admit that my estimated number of copies sold was VERY modest?

[billybk1]

$5 box + $1 CD + [($300,000 programmers + $20,000* promo + $50,000* Office)/copies sold]

So your $600 software costs less than 20 bucks for them to make... Thats criminal.

Are you some disgruntled ex-employee, with initmate knowledge of Cakewalk's financials, per chance.
Cripes, with that kinda wishful thinking business acumen, Cakewalk would have gone bankrupt 15 years ago already.
Cakewalk has over 80 employees to provide for. Everything from Sales, Marketing, Administration, to Human Resorces. On the SONAR 5 "About" tab, I counted (12) developers and (17) others involved in Quality Assurance & Testing, Documentation & Product Mangement. There is a lot of overhead that goes in to running a successful business. I am sure their monthly lease, of office space, in expensive Boston, is not cheap either. In addition to salaries, how about yearly investments in new equipment & hardware, help desk, website costs, insurance premiums, utilities(phones, gas, electric), legal fees, social security taxes, Federal, State & Local income taxes, advertising, Health & Welfare benefits, and on and on and on...it never ends).
How about money spent on aquisitions, like Ultra-Funk Sonitus plugins or RGC:Audio. Or money spent to license cutting edge technologies like MPEX2 or Pow-r dithering algorithms.

If anything, for what SONAR offers, I think it is underpriced! A $99.00 update fee, for SONAR 5 Studio is a bargin. The included full 700 page paper manual is worth $20.00 alone.

There is a lot more that goes into developing, marketing and supporting professional quality audio software, than a couple of computer geeks writing code from their garage, on the weekends. Maybe they can charge $20.00 a copy, and hopefully still have enough left, to put food, on the table and stay ahead of the bill collectors.

[_niko_]

So i asked basic questions regarding C++ so i must not be a dev in a different language? Very intelligent. I will probably order my upgrade as well but it doesnt mean that some people arent getting ripped off. As for the 'basic' c++ questions i asked.. Which one: returning a reference? Did you provide an answer. Was it the one where i wanted to be able to find the memory location of the parent that contains an object without having to put a pointer in the child class to the parent? The one that does not have an existing solution otherwise?

Ok, I am really not interested in a virtual fight, don't know what's it with you, maybe you should go out and have a few beers or sth.
References are really a basic feature of C++, but they also exist in other languages like java and even VB.
The other thing you mention is rather a OO design problem, I'd say (in short: circular dependencies should be a nono...)
Howsoever, I am running a small software business myself (non audio) and of course we charge our customers more than what we pay to ourselves simply because there are a lot of additional costs we have. That's just the way that it is. I still don't see the ripoff you are talking about.

Anyway, have fun...

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

So i asked basic questions regarding C++ so i must not be a dev in a different language? Very intelligent. I will probably order my upgrade as well but it doesnt mean that some people arent getting ripped off. As for the 'basic' c++ questions i asked.. Which one: returning a reference? Did you provide an answer. Was it the one where i wanted to be able to find the memory location of the parent that contains an object without having to put a pointer in the child class to the parent? The one that does not have an existing solution otherwise?

Ok, I am really not interested in a virtual fight, don't know what's it with you, maybe you should go out and have a few beers or sth.
References are really a basic feature of C++, but they also exist in other languages like java and even VB.
The other thing you mention is rather a OO design problem, I'd say (in short: circular dependencies should be a nono...)
Howsoever, I am running a small software business myself (non audio) and of course we charge our customers more than what we pay to ourselves simply because there are a lot of additional costs we have. That's just the way that it is. I still don't see the ripoff you are talking about.
Anyway, have fun...

Well references are simple, but returning references *efficiently* gets tricky when you start having to manage who to delete. But anyway thanks for your contribution.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

So How much does everyone think Sonar has costed cake to develop? Only include 1/3 of the lease and one third of the paper filing and 1/3 of the programming.. Or whatever percent you think sonar makes up cake's development efforts.

[ericj23]

while i appreciate your willingness to discuss costs it is entirely conjecture - and i can think of better things to ame stuff up about

like do you think paris hilton squeals or groans when she comes ?

and could you change the pitch of it by an octave in v-producer within sonar

[thenumber23]

Who cares what it costs to create? I only care if the value is worth it to me.

For example, let's say that Company-Z proved to us that it costs them an average of $2,773.61 per copy of DAW-X sold to cover their costs. So, they charge us $2,773.61 - in other words, they aren't trying to rip us off. Would you buy it at this price solely because it's so close to their cost?

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

Yes i suppose nothing is worth conjecturing over because its conjecturing. And that is bad.

[Cabinfever]

I came here hoping to see an active Sonar thread. Instead it's full of BS from LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY. What a shame.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

Damn.. You'll just have to click back on your browser a couple times you poor thing.. I think its funny you went out of your way to post that when your time is supposively so valuable that you wished shame upon the one who lured you into this devastating trap.. Get over it dude.

[billybk1]

Frankly, I have no interest in what it costs Cakewalk to develop the SONAR 5 upgrade, all I care about, as a SONAR user, is what the end product brings to the table, in new features and enhancements. So I look at the SONAR 5 Producer Edition, and see what value I am getting for my $179.00 investment. Maybe we could put a dollar value on some of the new features, to give us some idea, of it's real worth:


1.Pentagon 1 is worth $99.00

2.PSYN II subtractor synth worth atleast $99.00

3.Roland groove synth worth at least $79.00

4.Perfect Space 64bit Convolution Reverb with 260MB of newly designed impulses. Worth $69.00 (optimized old pristinespace light)

5.RXP REX player and sfz soundfont sampler worth atleast $50.00

6.New 64bit resolution mixing engine and 64bit Windows XP64 compatibility. Basically two apps (32bit & 64bit), for the cost of one. Worth at least $100.00

7.Roland v vocal variphrase - Compared to Antares Avox vocal toolkit @ 499.00 (with PACE no doubt) So you have to say Rolands worth about at least $200.00

8.Enhanced midi fx worth atleast $20.00

So far we're at $716.00 (maybe more maybe less, feel free to disagree)

9. The included full 700 page paper manual has to be worth at least $20.00

So now that's $736.00


10.Now how do you put a price on some of the rest of the new features below:


BitBridge™ enables 32-bit VST effects and instruments in SONAR’s 64-bit environment


Sonitus FX optimized for the new 64bit mixing engine


Track Templates and Track Icons


Native VST support now built into SONAR 5


Enhanced Track Layers for even more comping and editing power


Integrated inline audio and MIDI editing, arranging, and mixing all in one view


MIDI sequencing enhancements including advanced step recording, MIDI Scale/Zoom Control


Plug-ins and Edit views may be docked and tabbed right in the Track View for easy access when arranging, editing or mixing your project


Envelope automation drawing enhanced with tempo-sync patterns, freehand, more


Object-oriented clip-based effects and editing including per-clip effects bin, clip-based effect automation, and more


Enhanced Group Editing and Group Manager


New Normalize & Gain Commands


OMF Enhancements


Peak Markers


Audio Scaling in Buses


Audio Meter Enhancements (New non-segmented meters and customizable meter colors)


Automatic Remove DC Offset during recording


Float (32bit)file support & Multiple Bit depths


New Fade Options


Enhanced Preset Management


Insert/Clone Multiple Tracks


Inerleave Indicator in FX Bins


Waveform Preview for Buses & Synth Tracks


.....and more.....




I'd say at least $100.00 for these addiitonal new features/enhancements.


By my calculation, that is $816.00 worth of new features/enhancements, for $179.00. If only all software upgrades were this generous.

Sounds like a steal of a deal to me!