KVR Audio

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:56 pm

If you don't use loops, I assume you don't use synth presets either.
Oh, and I also assume you don't eat ketchup, majo, remoulade or whatever as well.
What about bread? You surely don't eat that either...
There's receipes for all of them freely available.

And what about your car? Hey, you can surely assemble all the required parts in a DIY fashion too, can't you?

Oh, you're too lazy? Oh, cooking is too boring? Right on...

In a nutshell: It's all about what you make out of it.

Bonteburg · Post by **Bonteburg** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:59 pm

classic Sacha

fjell_strom · Post by **fjell_strom** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:06 pm

Props to Sasha.

start/select · Post by **start/select** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:47 pm

Bonteburg wrote:start/select, your post should be made a sticky, it's that bang on!

Marco

scuzzphut · Post by **scuzzphut** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:43 pm

juicyray wrote:does anyone agree that its much better to download sounds instead of song samples (eg. beats)?
i think one thing thats important is ofcourse to mix sounds and beats is good, etc.. but also originality of sounds and manipulation of them!
i mean how can you be original if your using a beat someone else or others have used!

does anyone agree or have any comments?

this sounds like you had an argument with someone and now you're desperately seeking validation of your viewpoint

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:54 pm

I've only used a drum loop once, back in the days when I had 127 PCM drum hits on my soundcard (1 bass drum, 1 snare etc. etc.)

It's IMO much more fun to make your own beats, although I do appreciate the work of beatmanglers, who get creative with their source material. But in the end it's nice to be able to say "I made this song, 100% of it, except for most synth presets used in it".

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:57 pm

tee boy wrote:I never really got this debate. If you're ok with using premade drum sounds, then whats the problem with using a loop? I mean, its hardly difficult to program the midi side of a loop - its the mix and sound design!

I would also say that imo you can get more creative with loops than with individual hits. I love sampling breaks, then hacking a few of them up in the sequence and making derivative beats. Is that any different than if I used a premade kit? Not really, no.

Also, consider the comercial side of things. The people who make music for a living can use loops and greatly cut down the time and effort for a production. I dont think this is wrong at all. If you program a beat from some premade drum hits, then throw in a couple of loops, tweak and mix - this will sound like a new beat to all but the biggest sample spotter.

u my man, how the most sense on whole KVR imo.

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:00 pm

Drum loops are the least offensive way of cheating on music IMHO. As long as you compose the rhythm, melody, arrangement, lyrics and chord progression a drum loop is(tho lazy) forgivable. However sampling complete compositions(or just a few bars) and adding a "beat" to them is not making music tho. yer a remixer if you dont write a song.

juicyray · Post by **juicyray** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:06 pm

Its definately takes more work, talent to make a song with out premade loops and more creativity cause you gotta do everything from scratch atleast with the loops you have your loop right threre to play with (which gives you a head start), while the other way, you gotta do it from scratch and make it sound good hoping or knowing you or other people will like it!

but at the end, i agree what counts is, that its what comes out of either methods, as long as people like it who cares, theres different techniques that can be used.

I guess thats one of the great thing about making music, the different ways of puting music together for you or the people to enjoy!

Hey if the people like it, you did a good job!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:25 pm

juicyray wrote: Hey if the people like it, you did a good job!

Well, no...
If *I* like it, I did a good job.

Distorted_Mastermind · Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:26 pm

it's a tool, and it's a tool that is readily available. try for example taking three drum loops, use certain parts like the 1st 2 beats, then at the end of the 1st 4 bars add a the last part...same with the end of the 8th bar. break it down so only 2 of them play at one time...then select breaks so only 1 or none play on little short spots....wow i just made an 8 bar breakbeat really fast. i can throw my own drum loops in that and do the same thing, or layer with premade loops.
it's a tool, and some people don't get that you can do stuff like that. i know since i opened my mind back up to the idea my drums have been getting much funkier.

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:15 pm

I guess I stopped caring when I ran into the first sample cd with actually usable loops. Of course thanks to the current software, everything that starts as a loop, gets chopped, reordered, retimed etc. to match the track, before even touching any other parameters...

In the end, it's just another source of sounds, nothing else. While I still look down on people whose "compositions" are nothing but a handful of loops playing together in Acid or Live, if the track is good, it's good. Most of the time they aren't, but I tend to consider it a lack of inspiration/originality/skills/effort instead of blaming anyone for using loops.

I place very little value to things such as "oh, I recognize that preset from Synth1", "that snare is from House Musique", "the pads are obviously from Atmosphere", yadda yadda. Sounds are made to be used.

Just recently listened to some of my favorite albums such as Deee-Lite's all three. It was funny to find out how many of those drumloops I've used since in my own stuff, without ever coming up with anything remotely as good

And frankly, I'm so tired of the "I'm so special" attitude ridden people who gets snobbish about using loops, presets, samples, whatever they didn't 'make' themselves. Coincidentally a lot of these people are either into IDM or making IDM, go figure

JMH

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:49 pm

imho it really depends on why you make music, if you make music to impress people with how obscure your writing technic is then don't use chords, samples, synth
presets, or anything that you did not originate yourself

but on the other hand if you write music to express or communicate something (as i do) then use anything, for me music is language, have you ever tried to convey a message to somebody in a language that only you know how to speak, it can be frighteningly frustrating.

nakedhoof · Post by **nakedhoof** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:00 pm

start/select wrote:with auto-tune i think it's almost immoral not to use it if you can't sing the way you sound in your head.

We are the BORG. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological uniqueness to our own. We are the BORG. Resistance is futile.

For the hobbyist, this is just fine. For someone at the top of the music industry, this is not fine.

IMO the whole idea of "making it to the top" precludes cheating. Otherwise, you're just Milli.

Meloday · Post by **Meloday** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:25 pm

drumloops + slicer = infinite creative patterns

infinite + creative + patterns = drumloops good

downloading samples of beats is no good!