downloading samples of beats is no good!

[Meloday]

imho it really depends on why you make music, if you make music to impress people with how obscure your writing technic is then don't use chords, samples, synth
presets, or anything that you did not originate yourself

but on the other hand if you write music to express or communicate something (as i do) then use anything, for me music is language, have you ever tried to convey a message to somebody in a language that only you know how to speak, it can be frighteningly frustrating.

great point, stale bread.

[start/select]

with auto-tune i think it's almost immoral not to use it if you can't sing the way you sound in your head.

We are the BORG. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological uniqueness to our own. We are the BORG. Resistance is futile.

For the hobbyist, this is just fine. For someone at the top of the music industry, this is not fine.

IMO the whole idea of "making it to the top" precludes cheating. Otherwise, you're just Milli.

er, ok. you alluded to some star trek geekiness and then disagreed with me, which is fine, but why don't you tell us why you think it's fine for a hobbyist and not for someone at the top of the music industry.

[androidlove]

If you don't use loops, I assume you don't use synth presets either.
Oh, and I also assume you don't eat ketchup, majo, remoulade or whatever as well.
What about bread? You surely don't eat that either...
There's receipes for all of them freely available.

And what about your car? Hey, you can surely assemble all the required parts in a DIY fashion too, can't you?

Oh, you're too lazy? Oh, cooking is too boring? Right on...

In a nutshell: It's all about what you make out of it.

i don't think your metaphors are relevant. loops are structure. presets are just sounds. it doesn't matter if you use the preset of an acoustic guitar everything else isn't an example of individual talent. building a car is impractical and not necessary. being original is.

anyway, using loops may not be about laziness, it may be about inability. loops are good for hobbyists.

however, i've heard talented artists stoop to using loops sampled from other songs. i don't get it. i know they have talent, yet they steal from others

someone else who might defend loops is a loops salesperson

[start/select]

If you don't use loops, I assume you don't use synth presets either.
Oh, and I also assume you don't eat ketchup, majo, remoulade or whatever as well.
What about bread? You surely don't eat that either...
There's receipes for all of them freely available.

And what about your car? Hey, you can surely assemble all the required parts in a DIY fashion too, can't you?

Oh, you're too lazy? Oh, cooking is too boring? Right on...

In a nutshell: It's all about what you make out of it.

i don't think your metaphors are relevant. loops are structure. presets are just sounds. it doesn't matter if you use the preset of an acoustic guitar everything else isn't an example of individual talent. building a car is impractical and not necessary. being original is.

anyway, using loops may not be about laziness, it may be about inability. loops are good for hobbyists.

however, i've heard talented artists stoop to using loops sampled from other songs. i don't get it. i know they have talent, yet they steal from others

someone else who might defend loops is a loops salesperson

i sometimes use the sony loops stuff like arithmya (drums by jerome dillon of nin), zero-gravity beats (drums by siggi of sugarcubes and bjork fame), etc. now, if i was rich and popular in the music biz i might be able to get players i really respect like those two to come and play on my album and that would be fine. there's an artist you respect and you want to be able to jam with them or have them play on your album. when those artist do sample cds that i buy and can use how is it so different?

[juicyray]

in response to that, i hate the fact that now a days all you hear is remixes and old beats being used, you hardly hear new beats being done! I'm sure that theres still endless posibilities for putting out new and original beats!(without using sampled loops)
but hey to each their own taste and style!
like a said if the people like it, its good (if your doing it for the people)

[stale bread]

but there is a difference between listening to a loop and listening to a song, which one are you doing when you listen to music?

[start/select]

but there is a difference between listening to a loop and listening to a song, which one are you doing when you listen to music?

so true!

[herodotus]

Why don't people regard using loops as jamming?

This has always baffled me.

What is wrong with letting someone who has been drumming for 20 years play in your song?

Or someone who plays guitar, or bass, or whatever?

Charlie Parker played with others, he called it jamming.

The Beatles wrote some of the best songs ever written as a team, as did George and Ira Gershwin, and Rodgers and Hart.

The most memorable moments in many a song written by Jimmy Page were played by the drummer, who often didn't even receive royalties for it (though I doubt he was exactly poor after they 'broke'). Does this reduce JP's accomplishment?

[Distorted_Mastermind]

another take would be the creative slump......i might like certain parts of a loop.....i can put that together how i like it and then make the choice to build around the loop or play the loop part with a synth. they can be a tool for everyone and that would be another common use for them. also a loop can be something i sample in a phrase. i recently sampled animal sounds, added effects to make them more harmonic or rhythmic depending on the sample....then cut them all up into 8 bar progressions.....jeez talk about lacking in creativity or skill. to make things even better i named the song primal nature. it can be found on my myspace page at www.myspace.com/pmf

[androidlove]

herodotus, it's about originality. it's about artistic control. it's about forming each part around the other. this applies to working alone or with others. it can be argued that a song was written around the loop, so it all fits. however there's no flexibility, nor originality. did i already say originality?

[scuzzphut]

what? you use loops?? oh deaaaaaaaaaarrrrr. you're not a real musician then .....

fake snobbery. that's all it is.

stop being arseholes

[blaster78]

i use a mix of both loops and drums programmed by myself. I would acually say that it takes me longer and more efort to get what i want from the loop (chopping and reordering to add variation, sampling a few hits from the loop to add fills.

the whole originality argument is shite, some of the most memorable and original drum work i've heard has used loops.

the moral of the story is stop worrying what other people are doing, if you like it, do it, if you don't, don't.

steve.

[nakedhoof]

with auto-tune i think it's almost immoral not to use it if you can't sing the way you sound in your head.

We are the BORG. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological uniqueness to our own. We are the BORG. Resistance is futile.

For the hobbyist, this is just fine. For someone at the top of the music industry, this is not fine.

IMO the whole idea of "making it to the top" precludes cheating. Otherwise, you're just Milli.

er, ok. you alluded to some star trek geekiness and then disagreed with me, which is fine, but why don't you tell us why you think it's fine for a hobbyist and not for someone at the top of the music industry.

Anyway, IMO the only thing that entitles you to be at the top of your game is your ability, hard work and talent. You might notice that cheating isn't on that list. If you haven't got the goods, then you don't deserve the prize. There's way too much of that going on as it is.

If you don't think those things are of paramount importance, then you are just another sad cog in a declining society and you deserve to be battered aurally (not orally ) by Britney and her ilk.

[core]

I love creating drum loops, process & cut them up and use them in songs.
In genres like drum & bass there is so much use of classic beats also, but in many cases the beats come out totally original (both stucture and sound).

[blaster78]

Anyway, IMO the only thing that entitles you to be at the top of your game is your ability, hard work and talent. You might notice that cheating isn't on that list. If you haven't got the goods, then you don't deserve the prize. There's way too much of that going on as it is.

If you don't think those things are of paramount importance, then you are just another sad cog in a declining society and you deserve to be battered aurally (not orally ) by Britney and her ilk.

then we need to ditch most of the music industry ! the number of shite indie bands, bad rappers, poor electronic acts that are not "top of their game" through their abililty hard work and talent is astronomical, but they still get success.

and i still enjoy some of their music too.

steve.