Never heard a better osc/filt than Asynth, Why no more dev?

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

I dont want to argue here because its slightly off topic. But that is bullshit.

The beauty of complexity (regarding synths) is that it can be as simple or as complex as you wish. So it pleases everyone. People that want simplicity and complexity. Part of patch design is effects.

[The Chase]

i think a unison detune would make the synth shine.

Also a less vanilla skin

sounds REALLY good though.

[philipvjones]

love asynth but personally I'd rather have a new version of Augur.... same filters as Asynth(i think) with really interesting osc.

Really, Really, Really LOVE Augur.

[philipvjones]

Did I say LOVE.

[jmh]

I dont want to argue here because its slightly off topic. But that is bullshit.

The beauty of complexity (regarding synths) is that it can be as simple or as complex as you wish. So it pleases everyone. People that want simplicity and complexity. Part of patch design is effects.

So why the comeback bullshit, with as little/much value in it?

Actually what was said earlier makes a lot of sense - the time spent on doing the same old effects once again "because it's part of patch design" according to some people could be spent on the synth itself. Which I'd also prefer. There's so many great effect plugins out there, hosts are getting smarter and smarter about saving effects chains plus there's dedicated tools for that. So instead of Asynth2 with the typical chorus/flanger/delay/reverb attached to it, it would really make more sense to see that amount of time spent on additional features on the synth itself.

As for that logic about complex synths pleasing everybody as it "can be as complex or simple as you wish"... pffft =) It _could_, provided that enough attention is spent on making the interface work according to this, but it sure as hell isn't any kind of rule or fact, and so many examples regarding those 'more complex' instruments and how the majority receives them only proves that the more complex the instrument, the more time is needed to make the interface work so that those wanting a simpler / faster / easier access to those features they feel are necessary for them can just go and get things done, instead of being forced to route things via a god damn modulation matrix when all you want to do is introduce some vibrato with a modwheel.

As examples tend to work the best... how is Absynth simple to those who prefer simplicity? How about Blue? How about Korg's WaveStation? Reaktor, while we're at it? (I guess I need to stress that your logic surely implies that people are able to access them as simple instruments, because... a complex instrument can be complex to others and simple to those who prefer simplicity... err, how did it go again? )

A good opposite example (thanks to Sascha Franck for repeating this, it is a great example indeed) is FM7 - far from being a simple instrument, but enough attention is paid to make easy access to things possible - so those people who want to use its great sounds but want to change certain common things they need to, can do it easily and quickly, without the need to get into intricacies of the architecture. If only devs did this more often... it's almost time for a topic about this thing again

As for "effects being part of patch design", err, nope. They can be as long as the instrument provides them, simple as that.

So, let's keep opinions as such, and treat others' opinions accordingly. Stating these sort of 'facts' does very little beside make your message/point harder to get

Finally... if Antti feels like doing effects, I'm certainly not against it - effects with the same attention to the quality as on the synths, oh dear...

Regards,

JMH

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

I know what you mean JMH, but the people have their simple synth without a mod matrix etc.. Its called asynth. They have their synth w/out effects (asynth). Pretty soon you people will ask for a synth that just plays one note with one lowpassfilter fixed at one cuttof frequency. As far as features go.. the more the better.. Even if i dont use em. Someone requested velocity to cuttoff i think. Ill never use that, but i'd like the option because one day i might want it.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

And im not about to sabotage someones Feature Request by saying "that's stupid i dont want that feature." I would be a real jerk if i did that. Oh wait, didn't some people do that to me?

[robenestobenz]

Actually what was said earlier makes a lot of sense - the time spent on doing the same old effects once again "because it's part of patch design" according to some people could be spent on the synth itself. Which I'd also prefer. There's so many great effect plugins out there, hosts are getting smarter and smarter about saving effects chains plus there's dedicated tools for that.

With track freeze, and chains easily avaliable to me I'm doing this more and more.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

So why on earth would dev's even put effects in their synths? They must be stupid or something.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

I bet antii would make some effects that would blow your mind.. Built right into asynth. Stuff that was unique and couldn't be found in other plugs.

[enviso]

Hey guess what I hate effects on synths. They clutter up the interface and I never use them. I already have better reverb/delay/chorus that I will use if I feel so inclined. So there. P.S. Asynth is so nice for basses. THE RUDEST.

[LIMITAPROACHINGINFINITY]

What synths do you use?

[robenestobenz]

So why on earth would dev's even put effects in their synths? They must be stupid or something.

Stop polarising the truth into something else. Nobody said effects were totally useless or unnecessary, just that you can get by without them. In many cases, CPU aside, with better results.

And im not about to sabotage someones Feature Request by saying "that's stupid i dont want that feature." I would be a real jerk if i did that. Oh wait, didn't some people do that to me?

Nobody called you stupid, and just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they think you are. Also, discussion (moderately expressed too) of your request from a different viewpoint makes them a jerk? You are on an internet forum, for Christ's sake. Disagreements are like grains of sand here.


Anyway, concerning integrated effects, I like them - I like the practicality of having them stored with the patch (and the low CPU usage). But they aren't necessary to me, and I can understand the argument that dev time would be better spent on the fundamental (and character defining) parts of a synth.

[jmh]

I know what you mean JMH, but the people have their simple synth without a mod matrix etc.. Its called asynth. They have their synth w/out effects (asynth). Pretty soon you people will ask for a synth that just plays one note with one lowpassfilter fixed at one cuttof frequency. As far as features go.. the more the better.. Even if i dont use em. Someone requested velocity to cuttoff i think. Ill never use that, but i'd like the option because one day i might want it.

Allrighty. You say you got me, but then just jump into a generalisation about what I might need or want. That's one way to approach responses...

Options and features generally are of use. Didn't try to deny that any point, I was only commenting on your behavior, calling someone's opinions "bullshit" and basing your view on vague descriptions served not as if they were opinions but as if they were some generally accepted conventions or practices.

And im not about to sabotage someones Feature Request by saying "that's stupid i dont want that feature." I would be a real jerk if i did that. Oh wait, didn't some people do that to me?

Had you got me, I wasn't "sabotaging" your feature suggestions, nor calling you stupid. If you look closely, it's... you, who chose to walk down the "bullshit" path of communicating. It's ok (at least by me) if you disagree on peoples' wishes, I only pointed out (putting some effort into explaining as clearly as possible what I mean) that basing such extreme commentary on something you then proceed to present as something that's commonly accepted, wasn't exactly called for nor really valid. There is a difference, you know

I'll rephrase this in a shorter form:

Just like everyone else here, you have your opinions. If you don't share the same opinions, base your further commentary on something else than vulgarities and reasoning that's nothing else than personal opinions. Playing a victim doesn't exactly help either, if you've missed the point of my admittely long post.

My comments were mainly based on providing counterpoint to the issue about effects on a synth - unless there was dialogue about it, a simple post such the one I initially responded to, might lead a developer looking for suggestions and feedback thinking that's all there is to it - which wouldn't really reflect the situation at all from the users' side. "Gotta make some fx since they're apparently necessary and are considered to be a part of a synth", you know?

FWIW, effects in a synth are fine by me - as long as they provide something else to the whole thing than just providing an easy fix to 'more impressive' sounds with run-of-the-mill badsounding distortion, bulk chorus and simple delay. The more they're integrated to the patch creation (meaning they're a real part of the patch, being modulatable and all), the better. With the attention to details he's shown so far, adding say distortion/overdrive, flanging, chorus and delay to Asynth2 could mean that we'll see this killer sounding beast somewhere around 2009 (of course, then we'll have new computers powerful enough to run such things without seeing all our CPU power spent on a single instance of something as great sounding!)

Regards,

JMH

[philipvjones]

Augur, Augur, me LOVE Augur...

As far as what belongs in a synth.. effects or whatever... what do you think of this?

It seems to me that what is needed is what can't be done outside the synth.. what will have an effect polyphonically... on each note individually like envelopes and poly lfo, on the vcf, vca ...maybe a distortion in there but poly...

effects are usually monophonic, just processing a stream of audio, so not necessary in the synth.

Automation however which is monophonic I guess gives you ways to tweak the sound per the score so make automation work for everything....

That said I think every synth has to have chorus and delay just to make the factory presets sound good to those that like that.

As far as Asynth, I've always liked the filters but wanted more modulation (actually lfo for cutoff) and different waves.... hence Augur... So I'd rather have a new version of Augur(sp?)... or a fixed version of Foorius (not Antti but his filters).

Whatever you work on Antti thank you for all your wonderful work to date, you've given us some really good sounding instruments to use.

Phil