So for all you "solo" artists out there- any tips

[Stupid American Pig]

A friend of mine and I have finally decided to start "really" working on music together, and possibly start writing face to face. We have dabbled in each others stuff before- I would add some keys to his songs, he would play a guitar part for me that I was incapable of that kinda thing.

So yeah anyway, I am so used to working alone that I kinda feel "on the spot" to pull magic out of my ass when we work together. He feels the same way, but we both are very aware of each others abilities. I suggested that the only way to get over the hump is to have a few months worth of akward moments a few hours a week where we force ourselves to work with each other. Our goals musically are pretty close- he likes acoustic/americana/folky/punk and I like more beatlesey poppy type stuff, though I still do like the americana kinda stuff as well. I dont think its an issue of compatibility, as we are pretty good friends as well.

So yeah, I will quit typing now- but all you band members, what do you do to spurn the creative process and foster cooperation?

[Jafo]

The right chemical substances can go a long way...

Then again, there's also the pedestrian stuff -- hanging out together, listening to and discussing music together, doing lunch together with lyric sheets, and the like. Be supportive of each other, but don't be afraid to be (respectfully) honest. And don't forget to just hang out together; creative endeavors are stressful as all f*ck, and after a while, you begin to associate your partner with stress. So do the work, but don't let it consume you.

It's just like any other relationship, really.

Good luck.

[butter]

You really have to spend time together and know exactly where you stand with each other. I work with a few different people on a weekly basis (one a night just about every night) and an important part of finding out what's going to work and what's not going to work is just hanging out. I try to reserve one night of working with someone to not actually do any music. Just kick it together.

If you come across an opportunity to perform with them you'll need that familiarity to put across a sucessful performance.

[cptgone]

- Have sex with your band members' girlfriends to raise that creativity unleashing tension.

- Make sure YOU are the one who gets the groupies. Pay them if you have to. Once word gets out you're the ladykiller of the band, they will fight over your merest glance.

- If you need to punish the drummer, only physical punishment will get through. The bad part is, drummers have no spare limbs. But you can electrify the guy's nuts and make him scream bastard blue murder.

[cptgone]

not joking: you need to find companions with not only compatible taste, but also comparable drive. If you put lots of work into a band, and most of the members hardly bother to rehearse, there's a problem.

[mn]

Drop your limitations, your expectations, and your ego. Go in with the attitude that you're there to be productive together, it's going to sound like what it sounds like, and you're there to get things done together, not to get people to go along with your desires.

I think one of the things that goes the longest way is to just take the pressure off of "OK whaddya got?" and be open to let other people just noodle away and jump in there and accompany/support. To me that's more important than defining style, etc, coming in prepared, etc. Just knowing that each other will "go along" with what you're playing is half the battle, it frees you to be spontaneous without feeling like "they won't play stuff I like". It also, to me, goes the longest way to defining your sound because it allows all your tastes to organically be a part of the overall sound.

Keep your eyes on the prize which is to continue together, to improve, to get an organic sound, and to produce output. As soon as you start saying "this doesn't sound like X" it's over.

Despite "dropping expectations" it is important to define your expectations up front. There's nothing worse than a married couple 8 years in divorcing because they don't agree about having children. Um, yeah, you should have discussed that sometime in the last decade. Same with a band. No point using someone for 18 months then finding out they absolutely won't play out, and you absolutely won't settle for not playing out. It may kill some projects early but it's always better not to waste your time.

Every band I've been in, even with lifelong friends, ends because of this stuff. People come in with an agenda, and they get hostile when their agenda doesn't win.

[Steven West]

I'd say just 'jam' if you can till something good develops that you both like. Start with a good rythem, some riff in E or something - and see where it goes? If you happen upon a good 'sync' with your buddy, just jam that riff for half an hour if you have to, or maybe your buddy will slide up to A and try something there, and back to E. Or vice versa be it you wanting to adventure?

As long as at the end of the jam, both of you are excited and eager to take that 2 chord riff further, that's the main thing. If you're like 'my god - my buddy plays like shit, and just plays one note till I tell him to go A..' Or maybe your buddy's like 'Ah yeah dude - next week I'm busy, and the week after... But maybe in a couple of months we can finally do something DECENT...' Well then, it just wasn't meant to be.

[Funkybot]

I think you'll be surprised at just how easy it will be to work with someone else, and at other times surprised at just how frustrating it can be, especially if you've known each other a long time. Suddenly a disagreement about a chord change can lead to a shouting match, if not a fist fight, while on the other hand, you'll both appreciate how sometimes the other one just has a good idea about what to do with a riff you've been toodling with for a while.

I personally, don't like this dynamic much. It works if no one is overly sesitive or insecure about their skills, but if even the slightest hint of insecurity is there, people will get defensive, and fast. In my opinion, the best way to work with someone else is to quickly define what each others roles are. Let someone be the lead songwriter/singer, while the other helps flesh out arrangements and contributes with suggestions and the occasional song, etc. I do believe though, that some kind of heirchy like this, is much needed in these kinds of situations, and I think that settling on what your roles are where you can both be happy, will actually probably be more difficult than any of the more creative issues you've been worrying about above. After all, playing with other people is fun, working with them is what's difficult.

[Stupid American Pig]

yeah Ive known this dude for prolly 8 years now, and we know where we stand. I was alot more into the electronica when we first met, and couldnt play a single instrument. so collaboration was kinda difficult at best. I have since picked up the guitar, piano and bass to varying degrees and would like to give the band thing a try. we're pretty cool tho and hit the sauce together about once every 2 weeks with no muse...

[seamoss]

I love playing with my band members but sometimes it becomes draining. It's definitely more fun when there are not as many "rules" set and this usually occurs when you first start jamming with people. Egos are definitely a killer for me and the problem is we all have them. Everyone is passionate about his/her music and sometimes people aren't the best at taking and/or giving constructive criticism.

As far as jamming goes ....definitely record all your jam sessions. You will be suprised how many cool things you actually do!

one thing I will say for sure SAP...is that if you decided to use your VSTi's in a live, non-sequenced setting, do yourself a favor and check out Brainspawn Forte out. It's really a no brainer for people using computers in a live "band" situation. Finding this app was really a godsend for me.

I love EnergyXT and Ableton but they simply aren't completely geared for the gigging musician that doesn't play to sequenced music.

Good luck!

[Stupid American Pig]

Intersting- I may look into that. I havent ever tried Forte, and I see from yer sig that it "rocks" so I will go hunting the demo down.

For now, I have decided that we will just use my wurlitzer or rhodes for live use. Tho I may need to play bass if we cant get our bass player to move back from Austin.

BTW seamoss do you guys have a practice space? as soon as I free up my car note I think we are going to be looking for one.

[respirator]

Get the DVD The Five Obstructions: http://imdb.com/title/tt0354575/ and see how two great film auteurs make each other greater by imposing limitations. It's truly inspirational!

[seamoss]

BTW seamoss do you guys have a practice space? as soon as I free up my car note I think we are going to be looking for one.

yeah, we have a studio at Francisco's Studio downtown. It pretty much a dump but it's been around for ever and it's maybe the only studios in H-Town that are open 24 hours. This is important once you start gigging.

We share with another band and it's $425 a month. I think the other band may be moving out soon, so we decided just to keep the room for ourselves. There are six of us and we have a ton of equipment, so it would be nice to have the extra space. It ends up being like $70 a person or so.

You can also check out Texas Music Studio in South Houston and The Rock Center in Bellaire. Those are both nicer than FS but they are not 24 hours. It possible that they are 24 hours now, though. I haven't been there in years.

[Stupid American Pig]

right on- I am right down the street from The Rock Center, and my cohorts are in Sugarland area, so we'll check those out..

[emdot_ambient]

I'm not currently in a collaborative environment, but I was for nearly 20 years, both playing live and doing studio only stuff.

I know exactly what you mean by the awkwardness of starting out. No goals are set other than the collaboration, possibly no ideas exist of what you want to do.

Your solution is absolutely correct: set a standard time to get together several times a week. Then just accept that 90% of what is about to happen will be worthless crap . . . but record as much of it as possible! Even if you both hate what you did, sometimes days, weeks, months, years later you will listen to it and realize there is a germ of an idea in it that you simply couldn't appreciate because you were too wrapped up in expectations, not in experiencing what was really happening.

It's all about finding a mutual spark and then allowing that spark to develop in whatever direction it wants to go.

In my experience, the best results come when neither of you are exerting artistic control, but you're both feeding off the interaction with the other. In this state you will compose works that neither of you would have thought of or have been able to realize on your own.

My collaborator and I often described this phenomenon as the trinomial effect. For a long time we went by the name 3Nomial Voices. The name was taken from a proposed radio performance by one of the Italian Futurists but it described what was happening within the collaboration: there were two members in the group, but there was also a 3rd "virtual" member, the interaction between the actual performers.

Anyway, best of luck to you. The hard part of a collaboration come when the members drift apart in what they want to do. There are always times when your musical direction will veer off from your collaborator's. When you get there . . . post another thread and we'll see if we can help you through it!