KVR Audio

ugo · Post by **ugo** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:52 pm

fritzman wrote:Why not making a poll who is fickle about their plugins?

just make sure we're not allowed to change our answers.

-ugo

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:39 pm

kevvvvv wrote:Hi Eric ... long time no see

Hey Kevvvvv!

I was going to comment earlier about how excited you were about Hypersonic when it first came out because of its great library & capacity as an idea maker. It's funny because I wasn't that excited about it at the time (though not unexcited, either, just not as hyped as you were). I guess we've sort of changed places on this one, eh?

cold c · Post by **cold c** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:52 pm

kevvvvv wrote: Yet we all chop and change with increasing regularity.

We all?

I use mainly one particular synth plugin.

If I had more money I'd still mainly use the same synth plugin, though I'd add a few particular instruments just for their specific strengths in certain areas.

The patch mangement thing is a separate issue that I think is related to weaknesses in the host implementation and the VST spec, for example there should be meta information about each synth parameter and each patch, and there should be a means for this data to be communicated from plugin to host and back again (allowing one plugin to control another, and automatically make 'sense' of it etc.). Implementing a separate patch management system for each plugin is quite insane, and flawed in that it doesn't create any relation between similar synths or similar sounds in different synths, or layers/chains of different synths/effects etc.

If this happened you could use plugins for generating sound from one manufacturer, and a separate plugin which is like an intelligent easy edit page for controlling any synth from another manufacturer, and a separate patch management tool from another manufacturer seamlessly integrated into your host from another manufacturer etc.

And yes many pdf manuals are quite pants, as you say they sometimes aren't even used to their full potential by the manufacturers, I don't see why they'd put effort into another form of documentation, and I don't think it would be a substitute anyway, nor do I think any of those are any excuse for poor usability in an interface which can create much greater dependance on those documentation sources which many users find inadequate anyway.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:57 pm

shamann wrote:Something to do with pickles, I think.

Nice cuppa gurkentee for ya?

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:20 pm

kevvvvv wrote:No one yet seems to have explained why people are so fickle about plugs.

Yet we all chop and change with increasing regularity.

TINW,

Groet, Erik

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:12 pm

So who's used the absolutely stunning video tutorials to Stylus RMX 1.5 yet?

Are these not the best plug tutorials known to humankind?

Are they not useful to Stylus RMX users beyond measure?

Who needs more presets with tutorials like these

Congratulations, spectrasonics

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:31 pm

I don't have a problem with lots of presets, but I do with poor organization.

I picked up Wusikstation this weekend and I know I'm not going to make the best possible use of it, simply because the presets aren't arranged in a way that I will ever find them again. There's a perfect fat lead sound somewhere in one of those banks that I'll never be able to find again short of serially going through all 500+ patches. Instead I'll just fire up something like Claw.

This is not meant to pick on Wusikstation; I have the same issue with Cameleon, z3ta+, Kubik, Tera, even Synth1 and Triangle 2. It's mostly a problem with the way presets by multiple authors accumulate over time, or with less-than-useful ways to categorize presets.

I don't know what the solution is.

Oh, and another non-vote for video. Video takes bandwidth and hard drive space I'd rather not mess around with. A comprehensive tutorial can be done very well in HTML or a help file though.

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:46 pm

foosnark

Oh, and another non-vote for video.

And a non-vote for Stylus RMX?

djastroboy · Post by **djastroboy** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:15 pm

foosnark wrote:I don't have a problem with lots of presets, but I do with poor organization.

I picked up Wusikstation this weekend and I know I'm not going to make the best possible use of it, simply because the presets aren't arranged in a way that I will ever find them again. There's a perfect fat lead sound somewhere in one of those banks that I'll never be able to find again short of serially going through all 500+ patches. Instead I'll just fire up something like Claw.

This is not meant to pick on Wusikstation; I have the same issue with Cameleon, z3ta+, Kubik, Tera, even Synth1 and Triangle 2. It's mostly a problem with the way presets by multiple authors accumulate over time, or with less-than-useful ways to categorize presets.

I don't know what the solution is.

Oh, and another non-vote for video. Video takes bandwidth and hard drive space I'd rather not mess around with. A comprehensive tutorial can be done very well in HTML or a help file though.

I think Toybear's minihost is close to an answer to this: it has the beginning of a really easy way to take apart the banks you are handed and create your own categorized fxb's.
Let's face it, however the synth's author organizes the presets, a bunch of people would still be unhappy with the categorization so that's really a no-win situation.
In the case of Wusik, it's even worse since the presets come from many different sources so the vendor can't even make an attempt to organize the closet.
Bottom line: I think you have to take the time to create your own fxb's.
I just wish there was something even better than Minihost's implementation.
Is there?

No name · Post by **No name** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:16 pm

I know this much, if devs made tutorials and went into detail about how to program their synth then they would spend a lot less time having to deal with customers (especially the ones who think the synth is weak or is not a "hip hop" or "trance" synth, and therefore they want their money back and what not.) Thus freeing up time for dev! But you all make wonderful synths, there are just those out there who rely solely on presets, and that is never good.

eduardo_b · Post by **eduardo_b** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:13 am

cold c wrote:The patch mangement thing is a separate issue that I think is related to weaknesses in the host implementation and the VST spec, for example there should be meta information about each synth parameter and each patch, and there should be a means for this data to be communicated from plugin to host and back again (allowing one plugin to control another, and automatically make 'sense' of it etc.). Implementing a separate patch management system for each plugin is quite insane, and flawed in that it doesn't create any relation between similar synths or similar sounds in different synths, or layers/chains of different synths/effects etc.

You certainly have found the core problem with patch/bank management. I've never seen anything so strange as not being able to identify what banks and patches go with what VST, and not being able to preview and sort them outside the plug-ins. File associations are meaningless with VSTs. Keeping track of fxp and fxb files is too much work, and having banks with a mix of marginal and excellent presets adds to the problem. Someone noted that finding (or actually, refinding) a patch can be a time-consuming affair, if one even remembers it again. Given the huge number of graphics and media management utils, I'm wondering why there's nothing similar for fxp and fxb management.

foosnark · Post by **foosnark** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:30 pm

The patch mangement thing is a separate issue that I think is related to weaknesses in the host implementation and the VST spec....

Yeah. (And why didn't I notice that post before I wrote mine? Heh.)

Patch/bank management is something nearly every VSTi (and many effects) has to do, and it's not any fun; it really should have been part of the spec and handled in some standard, sane, useful way.

Majken · Post by **Majken** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:42 pm

Hmm.. that's interesting. Tell me though, would people like video tutorials even for free plugins and has anyone got any ideas of what software to use to record some movements on the screen and later add audio to them and export as a movie?

/Majken

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:57 pm

Majken wrote: and has anyone got any ideas of what software to use to record some movements on the screen and later add audio to them and export as a movie?

There's something called "Camtasia", which is capturing anything you do onscreen as a video file.
No idea what to use to synchronize audio to the capture later on. In a system with two audiocards it should theoretically be possible to record the sound at the same time (I think Camtasia has an audio recording option too).

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:02 am

is this the thread where we ask for more presets and patches?

To all devs: Stop plugin fickleness