Alesis M1 monitors

[Hunter]

Hmmm yeah I've come across those articels before but never actually read them...

Well its good food for thought anyway. Looks like I'll have to do some more thinking on this before me parts with me sheckles.

Cheers nuffink!

Yeah cool, but I was actually looking for more answers, not just being a prick!

Ok. After one of Jens posts, I found
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jun02/a ... nitors.asp
and this
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jul02/a ... itors2.asp
at the SOS site.

Note that this is a two part article with proper measurements. Not a press release.

This waterfall plot...

...is almost unbelievable on any speaker at any price let alone an entry level domestic monitor.

Except that I've measured B&W speakers before so I know just how believable it really is.

[diffamation sonore]

B&W don't seem to be shielded though, a problem in my smallish studio. As for looks, it is a matter of taste.

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fus ... D0B74745A0

Now I'm confused, on this page http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fus ... 0%20Series it qualify the DM303 (the only one that seems to fit my personal requirement) as "-use- where magnetic shielding is not required".

[Barbarossa]

Did someone actually look at the diagram of these speakers?
First, the frequency response is drawn only from 200 Hz - 11 kHz. Very impressive... And that in a 'musicians magazine'.
And what i see, these monitors drop steeply already from 10kHz to 11kHz. I can guess the rest...
But this area and upwards is (in opposition to Hifi-speakers) extremely important, for judging, if a sound has a nice silky shimmer, or just treble somewhere.
The rise of the lo-treble also doesn't look promising, for a good judgement.

But I'd recommend not to buy speakers because of diagrams anyway.

And do not buy monitors because of their 'sound' compared to others.
What counts is what they allow you to hear with them (in your studio).
And that is sadly often only revealed after endless hours of listening on them.
So buying a monitor is always a bit of a lottery, because usually there is not enough time, to learn them, before they can be sent back.

[nuffink]

Did someone actually look at the diagram of these speakers?
First, the frequency response is drawn only from 200 Hz - 11 kHz. Very impressive... And that in a 'musicians magazine'.
And what i see, these monitors drop steeply already from 10kHz to 11kHz. I can guess the rest...
But this area and upwards is (in opposition to Hifi-speakers) extremely important, for judging, if a sound has a nice silky shimmer, or just treble somewhere.
The rise of the lo-treble also doesn't look promising, for a good judgement.

But I'd recommend not to buy speakers because of diagrams anyway.

And do not buy monitors because of their 'sound' compared to others.
What counts is what they allow you to hear with them (in your studio).
And that is sadly often only revealed after endless hours of listening on them.
So buying a monitor is always a bit of a lottery, because usually there is not enough time, to learn them, before they can be sent back.

It's a log plot. The mark after 10,000 is 20,000.

Like you I'd recommend listening before buying.

Unlike you, I'd recommend learning how to interpret the graphs. And I'd recommend trusting that interpretation before the views of some technical illiterate on a web forum.
Especially if that technical illiterate has a bad purchasing decision to justify.

[Barbarossa]

Ooooooops! :shame: Sorry.

[Hunter]

[quote="Barbarossa"]
First, the frequency response is drawn only from 200 Hz - 11 kHz. quote]

If you read the whole article it explains the problems of measuring frequencies below that level and why they weren't measured, but were calcualted mathematically.

Good articles, read them last night. I have no idea what to do now. I don't think the 303s have the bass response I need for the musak I write though... I dunno, its all too difficult.

[mandolarian]

Hunter, don't give up. You could add a sub to the 303s and have your bass and feel it too!

[Hunter]

Hunter, don't give up. You could add a sub to the 303s and have your bass and feel it too!

Well I can't really as my budget is £200 for the whole thing! Plus my neighbours downstairs might not appreciate a sub above their heads, at least my stands do a reasonable job of keeping the speakers isolated.

[Barbarossa]

First, the frequency response is drawn only from 200 Hz - 11 kHz. quote]

If you read the whole article it explains the problems of measuring frequencies below that level and why they weren't measured, but were calcualted mathematically.

It's not of interest, why they din't offer the whole graph.
BTW, i wouldn't trust into advertsiement-magazines anyway.
Learn to trust your ears, because only the result you achieve counts.

[nuffink]

It's not of interest, why they din't offer the whole graph.
BTW, i wouldn't trust into advertsiement-magazines anyway.
Learn to trust your ears, because only the result you achieve counts.

MLSSA like any speaker measurement system becomes increasingly inaccurate as the bass wavelength approaches the dimensions of the room in which the transducer is being tested.
This can be ameliorated to some degree by windowing (Blackman Harris, Hamm etc.) but not elimininated.
It's for this reason that, paradoxically, this kind of system works best in an anechoic chamber (paradoxically because MLSSA was designed to eliminate the need for such an expense). Personally I always used to hire out the local gym when I needed a super accurate bass reading. That was good down to about 45 hz.

Still I'm sure a clever boy like you knew this stuff, huh?

[deleted]

DELETED

[Hunter]

It's not of interest, why they din't offer the whole graph.
BTW, i wouldn't trust into advertsiement-magazines anyway.
Learn to trust your ears, because only the result you achieve counts.

MLSSA like any speaker measurement system becomes increasingly inaccurate as the bass wavelength approaches the dimensions of the room in which the transducer is being tested.
This can be ameliorated to some degree by windowing (Blackman Harris, Hamm etc.) but not elimininated.
It's for this reason that, paradoxically, this kind of system works best in an anechoic chamber (paradoxically because MLSSA was designed to eliminate the need for such an expense). Personally I always used to hire out the local gym when I needed a super accurate bass reading. That was good down to about 45 hz.

Still I'm sure a clever boy like you knew this stuff, huh?

Nice, sounds like you've got a cool job, go on tell us what you do

And if you had a £200 budget and wanted to get a monitoring system with as deep as bass a response as poss what would you do if you were in my shoes?

[nuffink]

Nice, sounds like you've got a cool job, go on tell us what you do

I make plugins.

And if you had a £200 budget and wanted to get a monitoring system with as deep as bass a response as poss what would you do if you were in my shoes?

I think you have to ask why you want a deep bass response.
If you're making dance music you probably think that club systems are designed to plumb the depths. They're not.
Most club speakers have similar response curves to small near-field monitors i.e. they're rolling off fast below about 50-60 hz. That deep, visceral, thump in the guts bass is (to some extent) a bit of smoke and mirrors.
Look at this Fletcher-Munson curve and I'll try to explain how the bass trick works...


At a low volume (bottom curve) the bass has to be >50dB louder than the 1K signal to register to our ears as being of equal loudness.
At a high volume (top curve) the bass only needs to be 10db louder to register as equivalent. In other words the perceived bass in a club is partly due to the loudness. Partly.
The other major contributor to the club bass slam is the DJ wicking up the bass control on the mixer. Try this on a pair of nearfields and they will soon crap out (with any luck before your ears).
Well designed club speakers can take this kind of abuse without breaking sweat. What you hear is slightly increased sub bass and a huge hump between about 50 and 120 hz. A big name techno producer of my acquaintance has a pair of thesein his studio specifically for checking the thump.
These two phenomena make for the club bass experience and you're not going to emulate it for £200.

Fortunately because of the fundamentally similar frequency response of club speakers, a good mix on a pair of nearfields translates well.

If, on the other hand, you're mastering classical music that sub bass will come in handy. If your room can handle it. Which is another story.

[Hunter]

Hmm cool, the reason I want a good deep bass response is because I'm mostly writing bass heavy breaks and drum n bass, and I want to be able to at least have some idea what is going on down in the bass end. I'm not talking 30Hz here as that'll never happen, but my current Mission 71s only have ickle ~4 inch cones so there is no way they can be giving me much deep bass, especially as I'm currently in a fairly large room. Basically I just want to have some idea of how my basslines really sound... hence my interest in AlesisMk1s, truth 2031 etc

...anyway thanks for your input mate, much appreciated, I've just got back to my flat and been hit with £300 in bills so the monitor thing'll be taking a back seat for a while anyway

p.s. do you know any online resources off the top of your head with freq response/ waterfall charts for other monitors? Jus' curious.

[bitfreak8]

I've got a pair of M1 mk2's, And i think they are good monitors, especially for the price. But they are lacking in bass!
For that reason I got a pair of samson (hi there Jens!) with a sub, and i haven't used the alesis since.