KVR Audio

blue on blue · Post by **blue on blue** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:30 pm

i'm looking to buy some new cables, as the ones i'm currently using seem to add a lot of noise. can anybody suggest some high quality cables that are reasonably priced? thanks in advance.

C00kie · Post by **C00kie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:31 pm

Stagg for instance...

robenestobenz · Post by **robenestobenz** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:02 pm

Do the cables make a massive amount of difference beyond a certain point? A few people have told me that anything past the mid-range is pretty much gratuitous in terms of sound (though durability is another matter).

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:10 am

This is what I use.

http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/GACPCR

Doesn't look like much but it is an excellent cable.
It has all the important points none of the hype.

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:13 am

robenestobenz wrote:Do the cables make a massive amount of difference beyond a certain point? A few people have told me that anything past the mid-range is pretty much gratuitous in terms of sound (though durability is another matter).

different cables do not mak eany/i] difference to the sound... (as long as they are properly shielded)

blue on blue · Post by **blue on blue** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:37 pm

i'm guessing mine aren't properly shielded then. they were just the cheap store brand cables that i think the sales guy threw in when i bought something there.

AndrewSimon, thanks for the link, i may try those out. i'm heading down to a guitar shop this weekend, will see what they sell.

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:53 pm

Go to your local guitar store and try out different cables and you'll hear the difference between a premium cable (say, a Monster Performer or a Mogami [my personal fave, since it retains that vintage tone the Monster Performer violates]) and a regular cable. Don't trust your ears? Grab an oscilloscope or other frquency analyzer, and you'll have plenty of objective proof.

Now, you can argue that the difference isn't that large, or isn't large enough to merit the exorbitant prices of a premium cable, and you'd have a point. But do at least the auditory comparisons yourself.

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:22 pm

Jafo wrote:Don't trust your ears? Grab an oscilloscope or other frquency analyzer, and you'll have plenty of objective proof.

Would you like to attempt to show me some of that proof?

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:26 pm

blue on blue wrote:i'm guessing mine aren't properly shielded then.

if they add noise that's right...

(or to be exact: if they add more than the usual amount)

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:27 pm

nuffink wrote:
Jafo wrote:Don't trust your ears? Grab an oscilloscope or other frquency analyzer, and you'll have plenty of objective proof.
Would you like to attempt to show me some of that proof?

I'm curious as well...

jens · Post by **jens** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:29 pm

blue on blue wrote:i'm looking to buy some new cables, as the ones i'm currently using seem to add a lot of noise.

did you check if it's maybe the pick-ups themselves?

Are they humbuckers or single-coils?

TexasMusicForge · Post by **TexasMusicForge** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:57 pm

The only professional sound engineers I know who say the expensive cables make a difference are guys that make their living selling cables or the ultra high-end studio guys that can afford to lay out $75 a cable for permanent studio installation.

Us working musician types are better off using something better than a giveaway cable that won't add noise or break when you step on it, but you don't have to buy Monsterously Expensive cabling to get that. That said, I own a couple of Monster patch cables for my home studio rig.

The hype about Monster/Mogami et al makes good ad copy, but if you're playing in a noisy bar band environment with less than a state of the art guitar rig, you won't be able to tell the difference between a $20 cable and a $75 one. With all due respect to the purists who say you can measure the difference with an oscilloscope, I've never seen an oscilloscope on stage with a bar band or offstage with a listener. Save your money, amigo...

Tio Ed
Austin, Texas
Land O' 10,000 Guitar Players

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:58 pm

nuffink wrote:
Jafo wrote:Don't trust your ears? Grab an oscilloscope or other frquency analyzer, and you'll have plenty of objective proof.
Would you like to attempt to show me some of that proof?

Sure. Come on over here to BFE -- and bring your own oscillocope, will ya? Just to level the playing field. I'll be glad to take you to the local Guitar Center and hook up some guitars and cables for your experiment. Until then, do it yourself. I mean, it's not like you're gullible enough to trust audio demos, since they're so easily cooked.

Or you could, I don't know, maybe read the white papers and their published results, and do the math. Little things like, say, quality and amount of shielding coverage, gold plating (gold doesn't conduct as well as steel, but better than rust), the density, winding, and purity of copper fibers, multiple signal paths for different frequencies to correct phase errors, and so forth. While I cheerfully admit that my knowledge of physics and math(s) is inferior to yours, I know enough of them to know that these things add up.

(Like the Senator said, a milion here and a milion there -- pretty soon you're talking about real money.)

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:03 pm

Jafo wrote:
nuffink wrote:
Jafo wrote:Don't trust your ears? Grab an oscilloscope or other frquency analyzer, and you'll have plenty of objective proof.
Would you like to attempt to show me some of that proof?
Sure. Come on over here to BFE -- and bring your own oscillocope, will ya? Just to level the playing field. I'll be glad to take you to the local Guitar Center and hook up some guitars and cables for your experiment. Until then, do it yourself. I mean, it's not like you're gullible enough to trust audio demos, since they're so easily cooked.

Or you could, I don't know, maybe read the white papers and their published results, and do the math. Little things like, say, quality and amount of shielding coverage, gold plating (gold doesn't conduct as well as steel, but better than rust), the density, winding, and purity of copper fibers, multiple signal paths for different frequencies to correct phase errors, and so forth. While I cheerfully admit that my knowledge of physics and math(s) is inferior to yours, I know enough of them to know that these things add up.

(Like the Senator said, a milion here and a milion there -- pretty soon you're talking about real money.)

Just try and post a link to any authoritative measurements. I've looked. There aren't any.
If you can measure anything in the audio range you're on to a winner because Monster (to name but one) have been trying with the most sophisticated equipment for more than twenty years.
There still isn't a single measurement on their site.

Jafo · Post by **Jafo** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:04 pm

My spies inform me that TexasMusicForge wrote:The hype about Monster/Mogami et al makes good ad copy, but if you're playing in a noisy bar band environment with less than a state of the art guitar rig, you won't be able to tell the difference between a $20 cable and a $75 one. With all due respect to the purists who say you can measure the difference with an oscilloscope, I've never seen an oscilloscope on stage with a bar band or offstage with a listener. Save your money, amigo...

Good points and advice indeed! (But then, I find live music barbaric, and neither play nor hear it.)

guitar cable recommendations?