What tool to create REX files for use with Stylus RMX
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- KVRian
- 888 posts since 26 Aug, 2003 from SWEDEN
Hello! Yes! 
Recycle is _the_ tool for rx2 file creation. Spectrasonics must have used it to do their "groove control" libraries. But in their case the programmed drums is easy to slow down tempo and cut up in recycle much better then acoustic drums in higher tempos...That’s the reason for "groove control" works better" than rx2 files...
Well, however. May be of topic… Buy Recycle if you seriously want to create rx2/groove control (slow the tempo down...) files for use in RMX or in other Rx2 compatible players. Propellerheads is the creator of the format and their tool to do it is the best, no doubt.
Best,
Lars
PS! There is no magic involved, just hard work!
Recycle is _the_ tool for rx2 file creation. Spectrasonics must have used it to do their "groove control" libraries. But in their case the programmed drums is easy to slow down tempo and cut up in recycle much better then acoustic drums in higher tempos...That’s the reason for "groove control" works better" than rx2 files...
Well, however. May be of topic… Buy Recycle if you seriously want to create rx2/groove control (slow the tempo down...) files for use in RMX or in other Rx2 compatible players. Propellerheads is the creator of the format and their tool to do it is the best, no doubt.Best,
Lars
PS! There is no magic involved, just hard work!
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- KVRAF
- 1890 posts since 23 Dec, 2003
how come their acoustic loops like backbeat and retrofunk work just as well as the programmed ones?precisionsound wrote:Hello! Yes!
Recycle is _the_ tool for rx2 file creation. Spectrasonics must have used it to do their "groove control" libraries. But in their case the programmed drums is easy to slow down tempo and cut up in recycle much better then acoustic drums in higher tempos...That’s the reason for "groove control" works better" than rx2 files...
Best,
Lars
PS! There is no magic involved, just hard work!
You think they had the drummers play the beats in halftime during the sampling session?
I think its just a very merciless selection process where even great beats get thrown away if they dont work great when played back at slow tempos.
RU with me?
Dr.Wu
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- KVRAF
- 2608 posts since 26 Aug, 2002 from here
are the loops in stylus real loops or are they individual sequenced hits ?
the rex files are obviously real loops but i think they stylus ones may well be individually recorded hits with bleed
the rex files are obviously real loops but i think they stylus ones may well be individually recorded hits with bleed
I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.
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- KVRist
- 69 posts since 10 Nov, 2004
rmx loops are compelling loopish - as if recorded live in many cases. and they speed and slow down exceptionally well. i don't remember having that experience when i used reason in the past - so it is interesting to wonder at how they created the loops in the first place.
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- KVRian
- 933 posts since 14 Jun, 2004 from Guanajuato, Mexico
Wavesurgeon makes .rex files too, although only mono. But it's much cheaper than Recycle.
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- KVRAF
- 1890 posts since 23 Dec, 2003
the percussion loops in RMX definetly sound like they have been played by a human being in realtime.
Most of the drumloops sound (very well) programmed.
But most of the Xpander packs are made of drumloops played by real drummers
(Liquid grooves, Burning Grooves, Backbeat,Retrofunk and New Orleans Strut)
The only programmed Xpander is Metamorphosis.
RU with me?
Dr.Wu
Most of the drumloops sound (very well) programmed.
But most of the Xpander packs are made of drumloops played by real drummers
(Liquid grooves, Burning Grooves, Backbeat,Retrofunk and New Orleans Strut)
The only programmed Xpander is Metamorphosis.
RU with me?
Dr.Wu
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- KVRAF
- 2608 posts since 26 Aug, 2002 from here
i think folk misunderstood me when i said sequenced hits - i didn't mean they were made using a midi drum map - more that each part was recorded as a drummer plays but that each drum sound is on a seperate channel - quite the norm really
The hits could then be seperated and analysed to get midi timing
this is not the same as cutting up a finished loop - e.g. the sustain of cymbals would not get spread over several hits when slowed down as each of the hits is an individual instrument
the stylus midi then resequences these hits allowing them to speeded up or slowed down to your hearts content
but they might just be well thought out loops - i dont know
The hits could then be seperated and analysed to get midi timing
this is not the same as cutting up a finished loop - e.g. the sustain of cymbals would not get spread over several hits when slowed down as each of the hits is an individual instrument
the stylus midi then resequences these hits allowing them to speeded up or slowed down to your hearts content
but they might just be well thought out loops - i dont know
I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.
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- KVRAF
- 1890 posts since 23 Dec, 2003
some of the loops in RMX are multilayered. You get a kick only version, snare only,hihat only, everything with no kick, just the percussion elements etc.
But some are just straight stereoloops.
One thing i found what sets RMX loops apart from other REX files that i heard is the fact that whenever there is a prominent reverbtail at the end of a hit and there is no hihat or whatever coming up next, the end of the reverbtail will get its own slice. Maybe that is one of the reasons why RMX loops sound so well even at halftime.
RU with me?
Dr.Wu
But some are just straight stereoloops.
One thing i found what sets RMX loops apart from other REX files that i heard is the fact that whenever there is a prominent reverbtail at the end of a hit and there is no hihat or whatever coming up next, the end of the reverbtail will get its own slice. Maybe that is one of the reasons why RMX loops sound so well even at halftime.
RU with me?
Dr.Wu
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- KVRian
- 1096 posts since 31 Aug, 2001 from Los Angeles, California
Hi guys....there's two things you are discovering and asking about with RMX:
1st question is how to import audio into RMX. You need ReCycle to do this, since it is the only program that can make REX2 files.
2nd question is "How come Spectrasonics own sliced audio material sounds so much better than REX files?":
ANSWER: Groove Control®!
Groove Control is a proprietary sound development method that we have refined over many years of effort, that allows us to create sliced audio that goes far beyond what something like ReCycle or REX allows. Our Groove Control develoment system can be applied to ANY type of sliced audio, including live audio loops. It ISN'T done with MIDI programming tricks.
BTW...the answers to all these questions are covered extensively in the new 1.5 Reference Guide. I'll post a little bit of that part of the manual here, so that the differences between "standard" slicing apps and our Groove Control system is clearer to non-RMX users that are reading this. I'd encourage all RMX users to read the full chapter.
-------------------------------------
HOW IS GROOVE CONTROL SLICING UNIQUE?
What makes the Groove Control sound development process superior to other generic/automatic audio slicing applications is in the special methods, tools and techniques that Spectrasonics uses to create the Groove Control slices for each groove. This proprietary process that the members of our Groove Control sound development team learn, is something like a gourmet recipe: It takes a great deal of training, skill, and time - but the superior end results are well worth the effort!
All Groove Control products have to be approved by a review panel that judges the quality and versatility of the slicing methods for each and every groove on the product before the product can receive the official Groove Control® logo. So when you see that logo, it's a always guarantee of a certain level of quality and flexibility you can expect.
The ultimate goal of the Groove Control slice audio method is to allow the end user the most flexibility to manipulate a groove while maintaining the highest audio quality possible.
GROOVE CONTROL® - Groove Control vs. REX Files
REX files are often confused with Groove Control® because both share the basic concepts of sliced audio and MIDI files. A REX file is something anyone can create from a standard audio file loop by using Propellerhead's ReCycle™ application since it is an open format, while a Groove Control native SAGE file is a closed format and only something that Spectrasonics can create.
Stylus RMX supports the REX file format by allowing you to import REX files via the SAGE Converter application. This stand-alone utility makes the process of using REX files in RMX very convenient. However, REX files may not work as well at different tempos compared to the Groove Control files in the Core Library and Expansion libraries.
So what's missing from a REX File that a Groove Control file has? Here are some facts that will help explain the difference:
REX Files are inherently limited by three factors:
• Limited Tool set
The only application that can create a REX file is ReCycle, so the limitations of the tools available in ReCycle for manipulating the audio slices are also the limitations of what level of quality can be achieved in a REX file. ReCycle is an older application and no other plug-ins or audio editing applications can be utilized in the creation of REX files. For certain types of simpler percussive loop material, ReCycle has an adequate set of tools for a skilled user to potentially create a quality sliced audio file. For more complex mixes or tonal loops, ReCycle's tools are not adequately suited to produce a usable sliced audio file.
• The experience level of the “Slicer”
The skill level of the person who is doing the slicing work is another very important factor in achieving the best results from a REX file. While high quality audio slicing may not be an artform, it is certainly a skilled craft that takes a lot of patience to learn and is far more rare and difficult than most people realize. If the preparation of a REX file is rushed, not sliced properly or carefully tested, the results will likely be disappointing and nowhere near the desired end musical result.
• No guaranteed review process
REX is simply an audio file format, not any guarantee of musical results that Propellerheads checks, tests or reviews. Anyone can create a REX file and the end musical results can range from fantastic to terrible depending on the source material and the skill and experience of the person doing the slicing work in ReCycle. Unfortunately, many commercial REX libraries are poorly sliced, while others are sliced very well. REX files are a case of “Garbage IN, Garbage OUT”, so your mileage can vary a great deal.
Groove Control® is not limited in these three important factors:
• Unlimited Tools
With our proprietary Groove Control development method, we are able to use a huge variety of tools and any combination of commercial applications to achieve the best results for each type of source material. This allows us to try many things until the end result is exactly what we want with no artifacts and the best possible sound quality. Many different processing methods are used on the audio, along with a lot of "hand-tweaking" and some custom software. This ensures that every slice of every groove sounds great and can stand on its own. As a result, GC grooves can be played at a much wider range of tempos while still keeping the highest standard of audio quality. Even complex GC grooves with ambient elements sound great when undergoing dramatic speed changes.
• Highly experienced “Slicers”
Groove Control files can only be created by a special, highly-trained and experienced Groove Control audio development group at Spectrasonics that works together to continue pushing the boundaries of what is possible with sliced audio. The group spends a great deal of time sharing techniques to create the best quality results for every loop. Only Spectrasonics and ILIO Entertainments are currently authorized to produce Groove Control products.
• Guaranteed review process
When you see the Groove Control logo on a Spectrasonics or ILIO product, you can be sure that every groove has been carefully scrutinized with an official review process to make sure that it adheres to the highest standard of quality.
1st question is how to import audio into RMX. You need ReCycle to do this, since it is the only program that can make REX2 files.
2nd question is "How come Spectrasonics own sliced audio material sounds so much better than REX files?":
ANSWER: Groove Control®!
Groove Control is a proprietary sound development method that we have refined over many years of effort, that allows us to create sliced audio that goes far beyond what something like ReCycle or REX allows. Our Groove Control develoment system can be applied to ANY type of sliced audio, including live audio loops. It ISN'T done with MIDI programming tricks.
BTW...the answers to all these questions are covered extensively in the new 1.5 Reference Guide. I'll post a little bit of that part of the manual here, so that the differences between "standard" slicing apps and our Groove Control system is clearer to non-RMX users that are reading this. I'd encourage all RMX users to read the full chapter.
-------------------------------------
HOW IS GROOVE CONTROL SLICING UNIQUE?
What makes the Groove Control sound development process superior to other generic/automatic audio slicing applications is in the special methods, tools and techniques that Spectrasonics uses to create the Groove Control slices for each groove. This proprietary process that the members of our Groove Control sound development team learn, is something like a gourmet recipe: It takes a great deal of training, skill, and time - but the superior end results are well worth the effort!
All Groove Control products have to be approved by a review panel that judges the quality and versatility of the slicing methods for each and every groove on the product before the product can receive the official Groove Control® logo. So when you see that logo, it's a always guarantee of a certain level of quality and flexibility you can expect.
The ultimate goal of the Groove Control slice audio method is to allow the end user the most flexibility to manipulate a groove while maintaining the highest audio quality possible.
GROOVE CONTROL® - Groove Control vs. REX Files
REX files are often confused with Groove Control® because both share the basic concepts of sliced audio and MIDI files. A REX file is something anyone can create from a standard audio file loop by using Propellerhead's ReCycle™ application since it is an open format, while a Groove Control native SAGE file is a closed format and only something that Spectrasonics can create.
Stylus RMX supports the REX file format by allowing you to import REX files via the SAGE Converter application. This stand-alone utility makes the process of using REX files in RMX very convenient. However, REX files may not work as well at different tempos compared to the Groove Control files in the Core Library and Expansion libraries.
So what's missing from a REX File that a Groove Control file has? Here are some facts that will help explain the difference:
REX Files are inherently limited by three factors:
• Limited Tool set
The only application that can create a REX file is ReCycle, so the limitations of the tools available in ReCycle for manipulating the audio slices are also the limitations of what level of quality can be achieved in a REX file. ReCycle is an older application and no other plug-ins or audio editing applications can be utilized in the creation of REX files. For certain types of simpler percussive loop material, ReCycle has an adequate set of tools for a skilled user to potentially create a quality sliced audio file. For more complex mixes or tonal loops, ReCycle's tools are not adequately suited to produce a usable sliced audio file.
• The experience level of the “Slicer”
The skill level of the person who is doing the slicing work is another very important factor in achieving the best results from a REX file. While high quality audio slicing may not be an artform, it is certainly a skilled craft that takes a lot of patience to learn and is far more rare and difficult than most people realize. If the preparation of a REX file is rushed, not sliced properly or carefully tested, the results will likely be disappointing and nowhere near the desired end musical result.
• No guaranteed review process
REX is simply an audio file format, not any guarantee of musical results that Propellerheads checks, tests or reviews. Anyone can create a REX file and the end musical results can range from fantastic to terrible depending on the source material and the skill and experience of the person doing the slicing work in ReCycle. Unfortunately, many commercial REX libraries are poorly sliced, while others are sliced very well. REX files are a case of “Garbage IN, Garbage OUT”, so your mileage can vary a great deal.
Groove Control® is not limited in these three important factors:
• Unlimited Tools
With our proprietary Groove Control development method, we are able to use a huge variety of tools and any combination of commercial applications to achieve the best results for each type of source material. This allows us to try many things until the end result is exactly what we want with no artifacts and the best possible sound quality. Many different processing methods are used on the audio, along with a lot of "hand-tweaking" and some custom software. This ensures that every slice of every groove sounds great and can stand on its own. As a result, GC grooves can be played at a much wider range of tempos while still keeping the highest standard of audio quality. Even complex GC grooves with ambient elements sound great when undergoing dramatic speed changes.
• Highly experienced “Slicers”
Groove Control files can only be created by a special, highly-trained and experienced Groove Control audio development group at Spectrasonics that works together to continue pushing the boundaries of what is possible with sliced audio. The group spends a great deal of time sharing techniques to create the best quality results for every loop. Only Spectrasonics and ILIO Entertainments are currently authorized to produce Groove Control products.
• Guaranteed review process
When you see the Groove Control logo on a Spectrasonics or ILIO product, you can be sure that every groove has been carefully scrutinized with an official review process to make sure that it adheres to the highest standard of quality.
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- KVRian
- 1096 posts since 31 Aug, 2001 from Los Angeles, California
Nope...they are all real loops.ericj23 wrote:are the loops in stylus real loops or are they individual sequenced hits ?
the rex files are obviously real loops but i think they stylus ones may well be individually recorded hits with bleed
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- KVRian
- 1096 posts since 31 Aug, 2001 from Los Angeles, California
Nope! They are real audio loops. Groove Control allows us many audio development and sound design techniques to deal with lots of different types of audio loops.ericj23 wrote:i think folk misunderstood me when i said sequenced hits - i didn't mean they were made using a midi drum map - more that each part was recorded as a drummer plays but that each drum sound is on a seperate channel - quite the norm really
The hits could then be seperated and analysed to get midi timing
this is not the same as cutting up a finished loop - e.g. the sustain of cymbals would not get spread over several hits when slowed down as each of the hits is an individual instrument
the stylus midi then resequences these hits allowing them to speeded up or slowed down to your hearts content