KVR Audio

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:07 am

toine6 wrote:Actually this is the one I was really curious about, made my Tascam.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/hdp2.html

Bet that'll be $3000.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:09 am

toine6 wrote:This is the other one I was thinking about.

http://www.samsontech.com/products/prod ... &brandID=4

Oh, and I forgot to say, that on my MiniDisc recorder, I bought me a small 9v mic preamp, think it cost me about $75 or so. Something similar to this http://store.yahoo.com/minidisco-store/sp-spsb1s.html There are also more expensive (better) portable preamps out there too.

I'm having a very hard time finding any small battery powered preamps that supply phantom power. I've got a Behringer mixer that runs on 3 9v batteries and works with my condensor mics, but I'm really wishing for something small. Small means, I can carry it all in a compact camera bag.

toine6 · Post by **toine6** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:27 am

Here is my pre-amp. Small enough for you? (note... pre-amp is not object resembling Pen or US Quarter)

Yeah the Tascam will probably be $800+, we'll see.

Nev · Post by **Nev** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:31 am

toine6 wrote:Actually, I've never measured it, it seems like it's about the same as my home studio's noise though. The only problem with my Minidisc, is that I have to re-record it into my computer (versus just trasfering an mp3 or wav file etc.) and that my minidisc makes a fairly noisy mechanical noise when it starts recording (aboue 2 seconds) and then it calms down into a semi-quiet hum sorta noise the rest of the time.

I think Edirol made a recorder too, might want to check that out. Why yes they do http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r1.html... Seems like there might be another one out there as well... can't remember it right now.

Just thought I'd say that we just got the Edirol one here at work and it's pretty decent for the price.

Nev

GW · Post by GW » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:36 pm

toine6 wrote: Here is my pre-amp. Small enough for you? (note... pre-amp is not object resembling Pen or US Quarter)
Yeah the Tascam will probably be $800+, we'll see.

On Harmony Central there is a vidoe demo of the Tascam:
http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AES/Index/
At the end he says "list price, $1299".

toine66 - So how is that preamp? I think I've seen the site for it but I can't get a guage on how quiet it is.

The one here:
http://www.core-sound.com/Mic2496/1.php
looks good, but the price is a bit high.

junebug · Post by **junebug** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:13 pm

GW wrote:Can you test out recording to the line in? If that's not too bad maybe the Microtrack can be upgraded with a better portable mic preamp.

Junebug wrote: i am VERY dissapointed in this recorder

with the 1/4' inputs selected, the boost set to "OFF", and the input set to "LINE"

i'm getting a noise floor of between -72db and -66db, with the noise level jumping around a bit, not staying steady at -72db...

UGH!

there you have it --
JB

GW · Post by GW » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:29 pm

there you have it --

Ah, sorry, I wasn't reading carefully enough. That's disappointing.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:25 pm

The Tascam HD-P2 will be $999. Sony's new MD recorders record at full bandwidth & are $299 for the MZM-10 or $399 for the MZM-100. AFAICT, the differences between the two models don't have anything to do with sound quality. I could test out the MZM-10's noise level if anyone is interested.

btw, PAIA has an M-S stereo mic kit that's pretty cool. It uses the same elements (at least when I built it 5 or so years ago) as are found in Earthworks mics & has a built-in stereo decoder & preamp. I built a dual 9 volt battery pack for mine. Also, Audio Technica's battery-powered Pro 24 X-Y stereo mic has been popular with home video people (although you're back to being stuck with the internal preamp with that one). Finally, Sennheiser has that new mic with a flash recorder built-in, convenient but I have pretty low expectations for this one.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:12 am

toine6 wrote:

Here is my pre-amp. Small enough for you? (note... pre-amp is not object resembling Pen or US Quarter)

Ok. will it work with a large-diaphragam condensor or an SM-58?

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:16 am

GW wrote: The one here:
http://www.core-sound.com/Mic2496/1.php
looks good, but the price is a bit high.

Len has a great reputation among pros that do field recordings. There's hardly a jam-band live taper that doesn't have something of his in the kit.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:19 am

Uncle E wrote:The Tascam HD-P2 will be $999. Sony's new MD recorders record at full bandwidth & are $299 for the MZM-10 or $399 for the MZM-100. AFAICT, the differences between the two models don't have anything to do with sound quality. I could test out the MZM-10's noise level if anyone is interested.

If you can tell me that the Sony MZM allows you to turn off SCMS, and that the device does not limit the number of copies that may be made from the master, or require special software in order to get WAV data from the master, I'm highly interested.

More important than the noise floor is the question of control. (I won't give Sony control over my creative work, period.)

toine6 · Post by **toine6** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:28 am

Sorry for the delayed response... Been working lot's of overtime...

yeh know... actually my pre-amp that I show in my picture... it's a couple years old and not exactly what you would want, as it works kind of strangely... the latest 9 volt one though, that they show on that page I had a link for, looks to be the same size, which is why I used mine as an example. Mine doesn't really work like a traditional pre-amp, it gives you more headroom so that you can record much louder signals, like a concert (won't be distorted), but it doesn't really make things louder (weird I know). Seems like they've improved on it, and the one I linked to might louden the signal etc. (double check though, I was just throwing out ideas.) I just use a 9 volt powered (powered by iteself, doesn't need 9 V pre-amp) stereo microphone and it usually gives me plenty of signal for my needs. I'm just looking to record foley type of sounds, a concert, chat etc.

http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/produ ... =964590393

junebug · Post by **junebug** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:28 am

Uncle E wrote:The Tascam HD-P2 will be $999. Sony's new MD recorders record at full bandwidth & are $299 for the MZM-10 or $399 for the MZM-100. AFAICT, the differences between the two models don't have anything to do with sound quality. I could test out the MZM-10's noise level if anyone is interested.

this would be MOST helpful!
thanks much!

JUNEBUG

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:42 am

junebug wrote:
Uncle E wrote:The Tascam HD-P2 will be $999. Sony's new MD recorders record at full bandwidth & are $299 for the MZM-10 or $399 for the MZM-100. AFAICT, the differences between the two models don't have anything to do with sound quality. I could test out the MZM-10's noise level if anyone is interested.
this would be MOST helpful!
thanks much!

JUNEBUG

What I've heard about SoundStage makes me rule out Sony MD completely. Have they changed, or does the device still exert control over what's recorded and how, and how many times it can be copied?

My understanding is that Sony *DELETES* the master after the first time you copy it. That's a totally unacceptable thing to happen to my masters, which is a right that I reserve for myself only, as the copyright holder.

Please correct me if I'm misinformed here, because this seems outrageous to me, but it's my understanding.

There's something very compelling about devices like the R-1 where you pull the CF card out of the recorder, put it in the PC, and copy the data like a file. It's especially compelling to me for a couple of reasons, including the fact that I have several cameras that also use CF.

I expect someone to explain that stuff can be deleted by accident or neutrino bombardament, etc., please save your breath, because that's not what I'm worried about.

Would you use a video camera to record your child's first steps, if you knew that camera was going to delete the images the second time someone attempted to make a copy? Don't even talk to me about being able to write protect the disc.

Just tell me Sony changed, and that MD is now a reasonable alternative to CF recorders.

Spratman · Post by **Spratman** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:46 am

Righteo. Since I own a HiMD unit I'm going to bother to answer the questions here and make sure we get some semblence of correct information here guys

I'm not a HiMD expert however..

*Sonicstage, in its latest version allows for UNLIMITED uploads of user recorded material, using DIGITAL transfer, that is via USB to your computer, without having to play back the source material [i.e. it's not like old md's where you may have had to wait for the time of the track to rerecord it, and no I don't own one of those so don't ask!]. You're going to need a PC. I don't know if the latest Mac software for the new Mac Compatible HIMD's will work with older or other units.

*When downloading your recordings you will have to tell Sonicstage to convert the *.oma files it records to wav if you're planning on editing them etc.

*1st and 2nd generation HiMD MD's will record true Linear PCM, as well as ATRAC HiSP, HILP [HiSP256kbs, don't compare it with mp3 at the same rate, different algorithm, different sound]. Some 2nd generation models do support mp3 PLAYBACK.

*This business of 9v boxes, we're not necessarily talking about a PREAMP as such. One type of box is a "boost box" that is a box which increases the voltage supplied to a microphone. Minidiscs only supply 3volts plugin power on micin [well at least the current HiMD recorders do]. Increasing 3v to 9v improves the "clarity" and dynamic range of small condensors.

*If you are recording loud concerts or yourself standing in front of an amp stack you're probably going to need a boost box to get the dynamic range, as you will get distortion. I currently don't have a boostbox or extra preamp and when I go outside and record the sound of a train going past if I stand close with no windbreak or barrier between me and the train I get distortion. The SPL is not high enough without a boostbox. In addition to the aforementioned problem, depending on what mic you choose even small amounts of wind can be an issue.

*Some people recording loud sources also like to use bass attenuator cables with condensors. This stops the bass 'overwhelming' the recorder/sounding muddy, before the signal is recorded digitally. For what I do however I need not worry, as I'm not recording music generally. Radioshack sells these [or did?], not very expensive.

*Don't buy a NH600D as it's just a player, it records by transfer from PC, not from linein or micin.

*Sonicstage is required to transfer music to and from a HiMD.

*Himd has the ability to record to 1gb media. I recorded in HILP the other day and was pleasently surprised to find that at 256kbps ATRAC can sound almost as good as PCM.

*The recorder motor noise can be nulled by using a bag. I use the bag I got with mine as part of a bonus bundle. If you can get the Sony Bonus Bundle [these are region specific I think?] you'll either a) get a bag, some himd's, a external battery charger [charge four batteries at once, rather than plugging your player in and letting it charge the battery inside] or b) get a bag, a small voice microphone, some himd's. I usually set and forget [you do however have to set the volume level carefully].

*There are numerous suppliers of either DIY or custom built microphones. Companies that come to mind that tend to make quality products: Sound Professionals, CoreSound, MicrophoneMadness, ReactiveSound, Giant Squid Audio Labs, OKM [you'll probably find these impossible to buy outside of Europe, I had my eye on a set, but it's dam near impossible to buy them through the USA afaik, and no I'm not American either - just easier/more affordable to buy things in USD].

*I was really hoping that the microtrack would be a step up, but I guess I'll just keep my HiMD and keep using it until something considerably better and affordable appears. The Microtrack seems to be being panned for various reasons. I'm of the opinion that HiMD's, even though they are 16bit/44.100khz devices can produce quite nice recordings, better than I'd usually get with many consumer audiocards I've tried in the past certainly. Though I'd certainly be tempted by something with 24/96khz capability, proper phantom power and a great s:n ratio. When I bought my HiMD the Edirol ER-1 was much tooo expensive, and even if I wanted to buy one I couldn't find one in a store anywhere locally.

*I don't work for Sony, I spent my time looking for a portable recorder that I could afford that would do what I wanted, and bought a HiMD MZ-NH700 and have been very happy with it. Information in this post about Mics and other things may apply to other situations and other equipment.

Spratman

"Hiss-free" recording with M-Audio Microtrack - HO