Storm Studio, Reason, FL Studio, and Orion Platinum

[BONES]

I didn't know Orion used Java

It doesn't, they are talkin gabout Storm.

Interesting to note that CM have just reviewed Platinum, and only given it 7/10. The current version of FL got 9/10, and it will be interesting to see whether they can justify not giving FL6 full marks.

Yes, but any small hope that the review might be a fair and unbiased one was crushed when they made the impossibly stupid statement that Reason is a "more comprehensive one-stop shop" despite the fact that it has fewer instruments and effects, no audio recording or audio sequencing [except by using a sampler], supports far fewer file formats, has no plugin support of any kind and uses around 25% of my available screen-space. They didn't even bother to mention sound quality, another area in which ORION has it all over both Fruity and Reason.
I estimate that around one third of the review was unsubstatiated nonsense purely included to justify the final score of 7/10. And you pricks wonder why I get so defensive of ORION, when it is completely obvious that you are happy to accept the opinions of someone who seems to have based his review more upon the Synapse Audio home-page than from actual experience with the product. i.e. All the positive statements are almost word-for-word from the and none of the negatives are backed up by any kind of example or practicality. They even rated Sonar Home Studio XL higher, despite giving it a hammering in the body of the review for its lack of instruments and the poor quality of the included effects. They didn't even notice that its sampler is, in fact, ORION's sampler.

[TeeLangSun]

Sorry Bones, but you're definately in denial about the
quality of Orion compared to FL and Reason. Anyone capable of looking at Orion and FL objectively would easily conclude that Orion is not in the same league as FL and doesn't deserve the same rating in CM. Every Orion session ends with a crash. Reason crashed on me twice in about 5 years. FL's been very very stable for me for years although the very last update has been somewhat less than stable. I always like Orion's layout and some other particular things about Orion, but it's nevery been close to being dependable. As for Orion sounding better, I have no idea where you get such an idea. They all sound the same I guess, at least I can't tell the difference.

[audiojunkie]

Bones said:

They didn't even bother to mention sound quality, another area in which ORION has it all over both Fruity and Reason.

To which I said:

I can't say I agree with this one. I'd like to see some evidence that supports this statement.

--Sean

[speccyteccy]

I didn't know Orion used Java

It doesn't, they are talkin gabout Storm.

Sorry, my mistake.

They didn't even bother to mention sound quality, another area in which ORION has it all over both Fruity and Reason.

Care to elaborate? I thought the myth that most hosts have significant differences in their sound output had been dispelled.

[BONES]

Just quickly, FL is full of little toys, ORION has serious, professional [that word] instruments and effects. I'm not talking about putting this reference tone through the signal path and see how it comes out. I'm sure that most hosts would do marvelously, given that the entire process takes place in the digital world. What I am talking about is the sound quality of the included instruments and effects. All the little things that I used to have to spend thousands of dollars at a studio, just to be able to use. I never even thought of owning any of them.
Sure, you can buy some pretty cool VSTi that do a reasonable job but that all costs extra and kind of defeats the purpose of having native generators/effects, doesn't it? I have come to realise that I am severe on a lot of popular VSTi largely because in a host with as many high quality things in it as ORION, it is very difficult indeed to justify spending money. The only reason I use any VSTi at all is to make up for a few features absent from ORION's generators like Hard Sync and big, fat Unison. Plus I use Classic Chorus because I think it works better on Strings than ORION's, but it and PSP MixSaturator are the only plugin effects I use.
We have released two albums where 90% or more of the sound, not including vocals, has come from ORION itself. Point me to another commercailly available CD that can say the same of Fruity or Reason.

[BONES]

Sorry Bones, but you're definately in denial about the
quality of Orion compared to FL and Reason.

Really? Which of Reason or FL's delays is anywhere near the quality of the Platinum Diffuse Delay? Where are FL and Reason's real-time Impulse Response Processor? What instrument in FL or Reason comes close to the filter quality of any ORION Geenrator? Where is the support in FL or Reason for industry-standard file formats like Akai and Kurzweil? Where are their Wave-Sequencing synths? These are all quality features that put ORION streets ahead of FL and Reason.

Anyone capable of looking at Orion and FL objectively would easily conclude that Orion is not in the same league as FL and doesn't deserve the same rating in CM.

Looks like we agree on one thing, at least.

Every Orion session ends with a crash.

Every one of your sessions ends in a crash. I would estimate that fewer than one in 1000 of mine do. There was no mention of stability issues in the CM review.

Reason crashed on me twice in about 5 years.

When you were loading VSTi's? I'm sure even you could run ORION as reliably if you never introduced any outside code or file formats.

FL's been very very stable for me for years although the very last update has been somewhat less than stable.

Well, there you go. Fruityloops v2.7 was no more stable than ORION v1.7 when I made the switch. Not that reliability was the main issue, it was about getting work done.

As for Orion sounding better, I have no idea where you get such an idea. They all sound the same I guess, at least I can't tell the difference.

See my response above. It seems to me that the vast majority of you guys are more concerned with the process than the results. Every finished song that I have ever been happy with has been because of the incredible oscillators [in dual mode] and filter in WaspXT. Without that instrument our stuff would sound like shit [well, even more like shit than it does now]. No other instrument can deliver time after time the way it can, simply because it has more quality in its LP+Notch filter than most other synths have in their entire signal path. The fact that the dunderheads at ImageLine have been sittin gon it for 2 years or more shows just how much games programmers know about quality.

[BONES]

Whoops!

[snooky]

me? I liek teh bestest Instantarnce 1.5 VSTi

[projectdan]

Yes, but any small hope that the review might be a fair and unbiased one was crushed when they made the impossibly stupid statement that Reason is a "more comprehensive one-stop shop" despite the fact that it has fewer instruments and effects, no audio recording or audio sequencing [except by using a sampler], supports far fewer file formats, has no plugin support of any kind and uses around 25% of my available screen-space.

If thats true then it is an awfull review. Anybody being objective would have to conclude Orion is far more comprehensive than Reason.

[diverdee]

I picked up the latest CM recently, something to read on a journey - I truly wondered why I bothered.
The reviews are so vanilla, 8's & 9's everywhere, nothing really indepth.
Philharmonik got a 9 even though the stretch engine freezes the plugin?
Maybe someone at CM has a problem with Orion? The review seemed quite positive, so why the 7 overall?
Not an Orion fan at all, as i've stated earlier it didn't click for me in anyway, so maybe i'm ignorant of it & for me personally Bones gushing does it no favours as he flails about dissing & attacking all & sundry in order to protect his beloved, but I can understand why it pisses him off (as far as CM is concerned).

[xylyx]

Yes, but any small hope that the review might be a fair and unbiased one was crushed when they made the impossibly stupid statement that Reason is a "more comprehensive one-stop shop" despite the fact that it has fewer instruments and effects, no audio recording or audio sequencing [except by using a sampler], supports far fewer file formats, has no plugin support of any kind and uses around 25% of my available screen-space.

Not that I am defending CM's reviews or anything (I can usually predict 90% of the review scores from the Contents page) but perhaps their statement was referring to the included sound content in Reason (and P5, as the review also mentions this) If that was what they meant, then they didn't word it very well...

The one main criticism that they mentioned in the review that I do agree with is the old 'clicking the close icon will remove the synth/effect' thing...always found that annoying.

[zircon]

Bones, since when does a host have to have everything included to make it good? I don't see the logic in that. FL is rock-solid, with a killer workflow and a suite of nice effects. Sure, I augment it with VSTs and samples. But that doesn't make the program any worse. Even though I have numerous high-end, industry-standard effects at my disposal, I use FL effects for about 80% of the effects processing work that I do.

You're really rabid about hating on this program.

[BONES]

If you'll read the thread a little more closely you will see we were discussing virtual studios, not f**king hosts. BTW, I think FL has the most appalling, cobbled together, convoluted workflow imaginable. Its origins as a drum machine are still evident, despite a name change away from that. e.g. How do add an insert effect to an instrument? All I have to do is a single right-click, scroll and click. One action to add an effect, that's good workflow. Think of the easiest things to do in FL and I'll guarantee that they are at worst no harder in ORION, most will probably be easier. Here's another common task - see how the EQ on every channel works with every other channel to get an overview of the state of your mix. All I need to do is look at the screen most of the time, sometimes I may need to close the Piano Roll first.

Not that I am defending CM's reviews or anything (I can usually predict 90% of the review scores from the Contents page) but perhaps their statement was referring to the included sound content in Reason (and P5, as the review also mentions this) If that was what they meant, then they didn't word it very well...

Where? I didn't see any mention of ORION's sample content. Are you talking 'bout Sonar home Studio? I doubt they even had ORION on CD, they probably just downloaded it from the web. Its hard to argue that the included sounds are anything but krap but, for me, that would be true of anything out there. Even so, it ignores the virtually limtless supply of AKAI stuff that anyone can use.

[zircon]

How do add an insert effect to an instrument?

Set it to a mixer track and click on the effect that you want. Wow. So hard. Why do you hate this program so much, when it's so easy to use?

I don't consider FL to be a "virtual studio", but rather, a full fledged host. I do professional work on it every day, using NO other programs. It's absolutely incredible.

[Meloday]

What are the best filters you've ever heard?