KVR Audio

Sequent · Post by **Sequent** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:49 pm

In a weird sort of way it's also ironic that he was behind many of the Waldorf designs. At least according to the credits in my manuals.

It's a curse I tell ya.

Sad to see them go. The original Neuron was a very cool instrument. Don't know much about the vst.

soma · Post by **soma** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:50 pm

I can't really follow what is going on here. Sorry. Would someone who speaks German be so kind as to help with a better summary?
Thanks in advance

diversheat · Post by **diversheat** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:52 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Apparently there's a cracked version out as well - hard to believe perhaps Coincidence?

I cannot believe this. How can it be cracked? How can the Nuke-Remote be cracked? There is no mouse serving included, or am I wrong? The crackers had to program nearly a new product. Doing that would be an evidence for enomous skills of those freaks!

Is there an option for the crackers to cooperate with Hartmann?

droolmaster0 · Post by **droolmaster0** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:58 pm

That's interesting, but not entirely unexpected. I posted on their English forum for an explanation. I couldn't make much sense out of the 'translation' here.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:04 pm

diversheat wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Apparently there's a cracked version out as well - hard to believe perhaps Coincidence?
I cannot believe this. How can it be cracked? How can the Nuke-Remote be cracked? There is no mouse serving included, or am I wrong?

That's what I was thinking - how indeed!

diversheat wrote:Is there an option for the crackers to cooperate with Hartmann?

That's what I was wondering

Seems an enormous concidence.

HanafiH · Post by **HanafiH** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:05 pm

floyd wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:Apparently there's a cracked version out as well - hard to believe perhaps Coincidence?
Well there might be some poetic justice there considering how unstable its supposed to be.. Tons of pirate computers crashing

All I could find was a piece of an AVI file calling itself the Hartmann.

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:17 pm

soma wrote:I can't really follow what is going on here. Sorry. Would someone who speaks German be so kind as to help with a better summary?
Thanks in advance

Basically they said they owed a large amount of money to the company (Schlafhorst Electronics) who produces all the Hartmann stuff.
This company sold the cheap version to Musicstore wich obviously led to the destruction of Hartmanns price structure.
Hartmann then sold their stock to Thomann for the same low price.
Some of Hartmanns sales partners even demand compensations from Hartmann.

Seems their situation was very difficult for a while.
Im with ObiNeg here,altough they might have the legal system on their side.

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:24 pm

it is absolutely shocking how broke they really are. They write that after the music-store incident they needed money (for being able to afford a lawyer to stop it) and for this they sold all the rest of the VS-items they still had in store to Thomann for the same price as Music-Store bought it from the retailer - and in brackets there's the number of these items written: '(50)' -> 50+150€ =7500€ but that's the price for which they got sold so it must have been even significantly less.

In other words: they were already truly and completely broke before this Music-Store incident.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:36 pm

Really unfortunate considering how advanced the tech is - I can't help but wonder, with a bigger research/programming team, it would have been more CPU efficient, more expandable, and more stable.

I can't help but be a bit pissed, too. I need a replacement joystick and it now looks like I'll never get one.

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:46 pm

well, i sure as hell won't be buying anything else from those big music gear stores; f**k 'em.
they seem to be adopting the same tactics with small developers as wal-mart does with thier suppliers: " give it to us for the pittance we offer you, or you will be destroyed"

difference is, wal mart makes all thier suppliers go to china to manufacture, and those that won't are driven out of business by the largest retailer in the world refusing to stock their products; the result is the slow but steady destruction of a large segment of the north american economy, and the perpetuation of near slave labour conditions in asia.
as far as i know nothing that serious has happened because of Guitar Center

i have to say, i sympathise with Hartman ( the Hard man

)

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:47 pm

the thing is the following:

- Stephan Sprenger(Prosoniq) provided the basic technology

- Axel Hartmann designed the interface

- all the rest (computer-software, Neuro OS, etc.) has been developed by third party companies who who signed a service allignment with Hartmann. So these companies are in response to fix all the bugs and problems users are having. But they aren't responsible to the user but only to Hartmann. HArtmann however is responsible towards its customers. Thus it's a real mess. It seems that the one big mistake Hartmann did was to sign contracts with the wrong companies.

Majken · Post by **Majken** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:51 pm

Hartmann going broke is a real shame but I also feel sympathy with Schlafhorst Electronics who had to break their deal with Hartmann to get the synths sold.

/Majken

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:55 pm

i don't think they "had" to at all.
they, like any big company, put the bottom line first and foremost, and will do a panic sell immediately if a product does not meet sales forcast on schedule.
Many great products have been abandoned too soon because of this.
Most of the big music hardware companies have done this several times through their history.

Majken · Post by **Majken** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:56 pm

I cannot believe this. How can it be cracked? How can the Nuke-Remote be cracked? There is no mouse serving included, or am I wrong?

Well one way to crack it is to emulate the control. Should be rather simple actually, all you need are the two joystick controllers that you run in a window on its own emulating the Nuke. So the problem to solve would be how the Neuron communicates with the Nuke and what information is sent.

/Majken

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:00 pm

jens wrote:It seems that the one big mistake Hartmann did was to sign contracts with the wrong companies.

I'd say the two biggest mistakes were making a VST version of the Neuron at all, because they made themselves their number one competition (Neuron VS vs. Neuron), and then tying it to a dongle controller, annoying many prospective consumers and driving up their costs and the cost of the product (wasn't copy protection supposed to save business?). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the technical problems people had were ultimately system-specific incompatibilities with the implementation of the Nuke controller.

If they wanted to go VST, they should have developed a twist on their technology that didn't make their flagship product near-obsolete.

Hartmann R.I.P