Hartmann R.I.P

[diverdee]

Apparently there's a cracked version out as well - hard to believe perhaps Coincidence?

Well there might be some poetic justice there considering how unstable its supposed to be.. Tons of pirate computers crashing

All I could find was a piece of an AVI file calling itself the Hartmann.

sad but true
[lets not give exact search terms, please]

You obviously frequent parts of the Internet I do not.

No disrespect, but I hate snidey comments like that.
Anyone with half a brain can find search engines that will find warez references, more time google will do it.

[Majken]

I did try the Neruon VS, actually I even reviewed it. And it sure is a special synth thanks to its morphing abilities. I do not agree about the sound being all effects. Actually I feel the exact opposite way. When you turn off all the effects and listen to the resynators while morphing you quickly understand what makes it so special. But oh it did have some real nasty bugs. Anything from crashing hosts to peaking the cpu because of what seemed to be denormalisation. The cpu usage really was too high overall and my guess is that it was never as optimized as it could have been.

The feeling I got was that instead of working on the Hartmann keyboard version to improve on it by optimizing and adding functions Hartmann decided to make a vsti version to try a new market. However the product seemed rushed in that it could not have gone through proper beta testing and it was really too expensive while competing with their very own product at the same time.

I think a wiser choice would have been to make a slimmed down cheaper vsti without a controller using only one of the resynators with a completely different featureset from the original. This would've made it an affordable Hartmann and could have increased the interest in the keyboard version. But hey it's always easy to act all clever while looking back, isn't it?

And oh, about the reviews. A reviewer gets the product as is, and that's what he's reviewing. However the two Sound On Sound reviews look a bit strange to me. Because the first review was saying that the synth was just a bunch of effects while the second review said it was a great synth.

I kept in touch with Alex Hartmann (who by the way is a great guy!) during the review and reported back on the problems I had. He was really friendly and open about the synth. A few months ago I tried a new beta version of the software. So I was really certain the problems were about to be fixed and was looking forward to new versions with added features. However it seems like it was never further developed and the updates never appeared.

It's all a sad story. Hartmann seemed like a company with a real vision and the Neuron really is a special synth. I do hope it can somehow be developed further because it does deserve it.

/Majken

[arturmeinild]

I do hope it can somehow be developed further because it does deserve it.

That shouldn't be so hard, since Prosoniq has developed the underlying technology...

[jens]

I do hope it can somehow be developed further because it does deserve it.

That shouldn't be so hard, since Prosoniq has developed the underlying technology...

sadly that doesn't mean anything...

[Dr.Wu]

a word about Prosoniq.
Does anyone remember their "groundbreaking" invention called Pandora?
It claimed to be based on neuronal technology (here we go again) and was supposed to be able to seperate a solovocal from a stereomix so you could use the vocal with an entirely different playback.
The demos sounded like the equivalent of what it would look like if someone tries to cut out a person from a picture using a chainsaw.

Since there were no potential buyers for it at the original estimated price of around 5000 US they came back a year later with a seriously reduced price and ran an add in the german mags that basically went something like this:
"Does the singer on your 2 track stereomix suck? Get Pandora and lower the volume of the singer after the mix!
Of course he will still suck, but at least at a lower volume!"
Brilliant marketing!

RU with me?
Dr.Wu

[jens]

In a weird sort of way it's also ironic that he was behind many of the Waldorf designs. At least according to the credits in my manuals.

It's a curse I tell ya.

yeah but he just designed the synth - however the Neuron/Neuron VS are basically (apart from the underlying dsp-technology) Waldorf-Synths anyway...

(i.e. those who are actually responsible see the second company dying without having any personal loss...)

[Krakatau]

a word about Prosoniq.
Does anyone remember their "groundbreaking" invention called Pandora?
It claimed to be based on neuronal technology (here we go again) and was supposed to be able to seperate a solovocal from a stereomix so you could use the vocal with an entirely different playback.
The demos sounded like the equivalent of what it would look like if someone tries to cut out a person from a picture using a chainsaw.

Since there were no potential buyers for it at the original estimated price of around 5000 US they came back a year later with a seriously reduced price and ran an add in the german mags that basically went something like this:
"Does the singer on your 2 track stereomix suck? Get Pandora and lower the volume of the singer after the mix!
Of course he will still suck, but at least at a lower volume!"
Brilliant marketing!

RU with me?
Dr.Wu

i do remember pandora and actually you can find it...
(mac 9 only ...and though it developpment has been discontinued ),
... at the absolutely groundbreaking price of 0.000.00 US Dollars on the prosoniq site

[Dr.Wu]

so there is at least one groundbreaking feature in that software after all......

[Krakatau]

...ground... breaking ?

well you know...we don't bother much about earthquake here in switzerland !

[aMUSEd]

No (again) - SOS praised the vs. They slammed an early version of the keyboard. I also believe that it is totally false that "every " mag slammed any version of the Neuron.

Yeah I can back that up. When the VS came out I was very interested in buying it but a little bird told me to hold off as it was buggy. I read the CM review which was very poor and had also read the poor review of the hardware version when it first came out in SOS. So I held off, hoping the price would come down and bugs would be fixed. The hardware was upgraded and subsequently every review I've read of the hardware have been glowing regarding the sounds you can create with it- every one including SOS. Apart from CM every music magazine review I've read of the VS has also been very positive and again that includes the SOS one and the Future Music one - I read everything I could lay my hands on to try and get a balanced opinion, followed the Hartmann forums and even demoed both the VS and the hardware synth several times in my local music store (who were rubbing their hands in anticipation of me buying it) - in the end got a G2 engine off them but still held off from the VS because although the sounds were spectacular I could see Hartmann just were not coming up with the goods on the forums and had a strong suspicion that they had caused a lot of the bugs themselves in the way they had linked the VS to the NUKE - which would clearly make it hard for them to rectify but they couldn't admit that of course. However when the Thomann deal was advertised I jumped on it because it was obvious I had to act fast - it was not going to last long - so I was lucky. £100 for this synth - even with the current bugs was too good to pass up.

[Sascha Franck]

Fact seems to be, the hardware controller scared many people away from buying the VS version. I mean, yes, it might feel good (or not, who knows...), but most people dealing a lot with virtual instruments allready have dedicated controllers they get along with just fine. In that case, the VS controller would just hang around somewhere, serving as a ridiculously oversized dongle.
Of course this only adds to the cost for both the user and Hartmann. As we can see the added costs have been causing some problems for the latter...
Hartmann should've learned just the way Korg learned with their MS20 mini controller. They're now selling the Legacy package at a reasonable price.

Guess they simply didn't do their homework. Probably sad but that's just what's happening when you don't care.

[dsp music]

a word about Prosoniq.
Does anyone remember their "groundbreaking" invention called Pandora?
It claimed to be based on neuronal technology (here we go again) and was supposed to be able to seperate a solovocal from a stereomix so you could use the vocal with an entirely different playback.
The demos sounded like the equivalent of what it would look like if someone tries to cut out a person from a picture using a chainsaw.

Since there were no potential buyers for it at the original estimated price of around 5000 US they came back a year later with a seriously reduced price and ran an add in the german mags that basically went something like this:
"Does the singer on your 2 track stereomix suck? Get Pandora and lower the volume of the singer after the mix!
Of course he will still suck, but at least at a lower volume!"
Brilliant marketing!

RU with me?
Dr.Wu

love it !!

[bonomius]

Hi,
I buyed one from thomann for 149,
but i have to say that it should beits real money value.
The idea under the neuron is great, but they sell a beta software: it's true that is buggy, i'm on osx and had a lot of crashes with logic and live. Inusable for serious works. Automation doesn't work. It kills my dual G5. And most of the presets have digital clicks and pops.
Check the hartmann forum, there are a lot of users (also windows) that have these issues.
I really hoped to see anytime an upgrade (they never released one) but now seems i'll never see.
Really a bad news.

[replicant]

FWIW I found that it performance best if you have an audio buffer size at 1024 or above. Also keep an eye on the RAM usage, since it doesn't seem to release the RAM when a new model is loaded, so after loading 20-30 models you end up with not so much RAM left. Best way is to first brows and re-load the plug-in (i.e. unload the Neuron VS as an instrument and then reload it) once you've found the model that you will use. That way the RAM will be release from your Model browsing and it should perform better. At least that's what I've found works for me, both as an AUinstrument and as VSTi.

[droolmaster0]

As far as 'flashy tin'. Well, it's my understanding that the interface is quite useful. that aside from more effects (which you can pretty much get from using the vs in a vst environment), that the keyboard really works well with the software. But - I haven't tried it myself. but then again, neither have you, right?

No, the one time I tried at a London dealership, the thing wouldn't work.

Reminded me of the de Lorean. Nice idea, shame about the car.

But the keyboard DOES work. It does not have the reputation of not working. So, if you couldn't get the keyboard to work, the store had a broken one, or it was user error. But, hey - it's fun to say that the Neuron sucks, isn't it?