Hartmann R.I.P

[droolmaster0]

I played the Hartmann about 2 years ago at a musicstore and wasnt impressed at all.
The fact that pitch and tempo of the samples/models were connected didnt help to convince me that this should be a piece of state of the art technology.
And the loopclicks were pretty annoying too.
I bought a V-Synth instead and never looked back.
The V-Synth currently received a major feature update for free while Hartmann cant even deliver bugfixes and bites the dust.
Looks like i made the right decision!


RU with me?
Dr.Wu

Not at all. I had a vsynth for awhile. Had that typical Roland corporate sound. Some nice tracks, but the sound wasn't nearly as organic as the Neuron, and it didn't have nearly the capability to change timbres so dramatically and easily. So I sold it. Hated it really. But - yeah - as a company, there was something very wrong with hartmann.

[droolmaster0]

I did try the Neruon VS, actually I even reviewed it. And it sure is a special synth thanks to its morphing abilities. I do not agree about the sound being all effects. Actually I feel the exact opposite way. When you turn off all the effects and listen to the resynators while morphing you quickly understand what makes it so special. But oh it did have some real nasty bugs. Anything from crashing hosts to peaking the cpu because of what seemed to be denormalisation. The cpu usage really was too high overall and my guess is that it was never as optimized as it could have been.

The feeling I got was that instead of working on the Hartmann keyboard version to improve on it by optimizing and adding functions Hartmann decided to make a vsti version to try a new market. However the product seemed rushed in that it could not have gone through proper beta testing and it was really too expensive while competing with their very own product at the same time.

I think a wiser choice would have been to make a slimmed down cheaper vsti without a controller using only one of the resynators with a completely different featureset from the original. This would've made it an affordable Hartmann and could have increased the interest in the keyboard version. But hey it's always easy to act all clever while looking back, isn't it?

And oh, about the reviews. A reviewer gets the product as is, and that's what he's reviewing. However the two Sound On Sound reviews look a bit strange to me. Because the first review was saying that the synth was just a bunch of effects while the second review said it was a great synth.

I kept in touch with Alex Hartmann (who by the way is a great guy!) during the review and reported back on the problems I had. He was really friendly and open about the synth. A few months ago I tried a new beta version of the software. So I was really certain the problems were about to be fixed and was looking forward to new versions with added features. However it seems like it was never further developed and the updates never appeared.

It's all a sad story. Hartmann seemed like a company with a real vision and the Neuron really is a special synth. I do hope it can somehow be developed further because it does deserve it.

/Majken

Yes - there was mention by someone on their forum (forget his name - Stephen Sprenger?) who was involved with the dsp code, but not officially from Hartmann, who said that there had been a beta version that reputedly fixed the denormalization problems on p4's. Was that your experience that the beta fixed some of the problems? Was it good enough that it could be released, do you think?

[Majken]

Yes - there was mention by someone on their forum (forget his name - Stephen Sprenger?) who was involved with the dsp code, but not officially from Hartmann, who said that there had been a beta version that reputedly fixed the denormalization problems on p4's. Was that your experience that the beta fixed some of the problems? Was it good enough that it could be released, do you think?

I actually didn't notice any difference in the beta but it could have addressed problems that I wasn't specifically looking for. So I'm really not sure if it was useful or not to be honest.

/Majken

[HanafiH]

As far as 'flashy tin'. Well, it's my understanding that the interface is quite useful. that aside from more effects (which you can pretty much get from using the vs in a vst environment), that the keyboard really works well with the software. But - I haven't tried it myself. but then again, neither have you, right?

No, the one time I tried at a London dealership, the thing wouldn't work.

Reminded me of the de Lorean. Nice idea, shame about the car.

But the keyboard DOES work. It does not have the reputation of not working. So, if you couldn't get the keyboard to work, the store had a broken one, or it was user error. But, hey - it's fun to say that the Neuron sucks, isn't it?

I don't know, I've never tried.

THE NEURON SUCKS.

Well on a pleasure level of one to ten it scores about SX3, which really does suck. Now that felt good. My position is that the Hartman synthesizers were lemons, due to the fact that a retailer was dumping them at a very low price - only ever happens when something bad is in the offing, that does, and we all know now what that was.

I still think the synth is a lemon, I quite like the sound that some people get out of it, somebody will probably make a groundbreaking album from it, but it's a lemon.

[droolmaster0]

Thank you. That was so helpful.

[HanafiH]

Thank you. That was so helpful.

You're most welcome.

[Blue Wind Project]

[quote="meeks"]What a wild story...but the suppliers did the right thing and had every right too. Nueron could have saved this rather quickly with a group buy or lowering it to a reasonable price ($150)...lets face it..people who but VSTs are 90% flat broke and lying to the wife on exactly how much thier spending on VSTs :)quote]

MAN you have ME pagged !!!

Please don't tell the missus..she will break out
with the frying pan

[Dr.Wu]

I played the Hartmann about 2 years ago at a musicstore and wasnt impressed at all.
The fact that pitch and tempo of the samples/models were connected didnt help to convince me that this should be a piece of state of the art technology.
And the loopclicks were pretty annoying too.
I bought a V-Synth instead and never looked back.
The V-Synth currently received a major feature update for free while Hartmann cant even deliver bugfixes and bites the dust.
Looks like i made the right decision!


RU with me?
Dr.Wu

Not at all. I had a vsynth for awhile. Had that typical Roland corporate sound. Some nice tracks, but the sound wasn't nearly as organic as the Neuron, and it didn't have nearly the capability to change timbres so dramatically and easily. So I sold it. Hated it really. But - yeah - as a company, there was something very wrong with hartmann.

you mean i didnt make the right decision?
Can you imagine that other people have different standards than you?
If the Neuron works for you-great!
I prefer the realtime possibilities of the V-Synth to change pitch and time of a sample independently as i please and since i can sample my own stuff into it without the need to go thru an external modelmaker software- it does have a corporate sound-mine!

Dont try to defend your purchase by accusing everybody else that they made a mistake by not choosing the exact same lemon like you.
Now go and drool some more! You are a real master at that!



RU with me?
Dr.Wu

[Radek]

I was testing the actual "hardware" Neuron at a store. I was disgusted by it!

Let me explain:
A crappy keyboard I was scared to play a harder.
A long times between patch changes.
A long boot time.
A not so good patches from a musical standpoint. Don't understand me wrong - some of them were really interesting but it's an all about them.
A small display for a such comprehensive synth...
Puny polyphony unless of course you are just enjoying a synth for a sake of itself.
The big price tag, far too big.

Imho I just summed all of this well.

Well, quite obviously your preferences are clear. Lots of polyphony and nice presets.

And these are a bad things? How could I be satisfied with a synth with insufficient polyphony so I couldn't play without apparent note stealing?

For the presets - many of them are pretty good on the Neuron actually but still... I don't know how it's better than a K5000 or a fs1r, or a Cameleon or many other advanced synths. The Neuron being the most sophisticated of all? Perhaps it is but then this mean the mountain had born a mouse.

This obviously isn't the synth for you, nor would a Kyma be a synth for you, nor would a modular be a synth for you. But, damn, you summed all of this so well.

Yes, obviously it is not for me. For a reason alone that its keys could broke after of two weeks of my using (I like weighted keys). The other ones are the Cronox3 and the fs1r are giving me already 1000s of possibilities. I also would prefer the K5000 over the Neuron. But this is just me.

[zircon]

Electronic Musician's latest issue gives the VS version 1.0 a 2.5 - they say, of course, that the sounds are completely incredible and unique, but everything else about it is poorly designed or annoying. I'm inclined to agree with that general sentiment.

[droolmaster0]

I was testing the actual "hardware" Neuron at a store. I was disgusted by it!

Let me explain:
A crappy keyboard I was scared to play a harder.
A long times between patch changes.
A long boot time.
A not so good patches from a musical standpoint. Don't understand me wrong - some of them were really interesting but it's an all about them.
A small display for a such comprehensive synth...
Puny polyphony unless of course you are just enjoying a synth for a sake of itself.
The big price tag, far too big.

Imho I just summed all of this well.

Well, quite obviously your preferences are clear. Lots of polyphony and nice presets.

And these are a bad things? How could I be satisfied with a synth with insufficient polyphony so I couldn't play without apparent note stealing?

For the presets - many of them are pretty good on the Neuron actually but still... I don't know how it's better than a K5000 or a fs1r, or a Cameleon or many other advanced synths. The Neuron being the most sophisticated of all? Perhaps it is but then this mean the mountain had born a mouse.

This obviously isn't the synth for you, nor would a Kyma be a synth for you, nor would a modular be a synth for you. But, damn, you summed all of this so well.

Yes, obviously it is not for me. For a reason alone that its keys could broke after of two weeks of my using (I like weighted keys). The other ones are the Cronox3 and the fs1r are giving me already 1000s of possibilities. I also would prefer the K5000 over the Neuron. But this is just me.

But it's not a synth that was intended to maximize polyphony at the expense of its soundscapes. It is not that kind of keyboard. You won't get huge numbers of voices on a Kyma either, but you don't hear people knocking it for that reason. That just isn't the concept.

The fact that you are looking for max polyphony and nice presets is fine - but it just seems ridiculous to so totally slam the synth because it doesn't quite fit your exact idea of what a synth should be.

It's hilarious that you bring up Cameleon. I think that the sound quality of Cameleon is pretty bad. Have you tried Cube? In any case, the vs sounds so much better than Cameleon that the fact that you bring up Cameleon suggests that you really don't have any idea of what it is like to play a Neuron. The fs1r is a GREAT synth (just got mine), but it is an entirely different type of animal and sounds nothing like the neuron. And sure - it is fine to choose the k5000 over the neuron. But to so totally slam it like you have, while not having the slightest clue as to what it really is, is pretty damn laughable.

[droolmaster0]

I played the Hartmann about 2 years ago at a musicstore and wasnt impressed at all.
The fact that pitch and tempo of the samples/models were connected didnt help to convince me that this should be a piece of state of the art technology.
And the loopclicks were pretty annoying too.
I bought a V-Synth instead and never looked back.
The V-Synth currently received a major feature update for free while Hartmann cant even deliver bugfixes and bites the dust.
Looks like i made the right decision!


RU with me?
Dr.Wu

Not at all. I had a vsynth for awhile. Had that typical Roland corporate sound. Some nice tracks, but the sound wasn't nearly as organic as the Neuron, and it didn't have nearly the capability to change timbres so dramatically and easily. So I sold it. Hated it really. But - yeah - as a company, there was something very wrong with hartmann.

you mean i didnt make the right decision?
Can you imagine that other people have different standards than you?
If the Neuron works for you-great!
I prefer the realtime possibilities of the V-Synth to change pitch and time of a sample independently as i please and since i can sample my own stuff into it without the need to go thru an external modelmaker software- it does have a corporate sound-mine!

Dont try to defend your purchase by accusing everybody else that they made a mistake by not choosing the exact same lemon like you.
Now go and drool some more! You are a real master at that!



RU with me?
Dr.Wu

This is just so f**king silly. If you can't see how self-contradictory your arguments are, well, I'm certainly not going to convince you.

As for making the right decision. LOL - of course, you made the right decision. You prefer the vsynth. I also made the right decision. I prefer the vs.

What I just love in this thread is the fact that so many morons love pontificating without having the slightest clue of what they are talking about. I, at least, have some clue - I owned a vsynth for awhile (and can certainly see what people like about it), and I own a neuron vs. The only thing that I am 'defending' is the truth. The truth is that it is an extremely creative, great sounding synth, with some big flaws. If you know what you're looking for and have done your research, then I'd recommend one. But obviously not if you're looking for a preset synth with lots of polyphony.

Some posters have simply stated that they tried it for a bit and didn't like it. Well, that's perfectly fine. But it's people who have virtually no experience on one, who rant and rave as if they have a clue, when they don't - I'm not even sure why you are bothering to post, other than to hear yourself talk...who are so annoying.

[Amberience]

Seems perfectly agreeable to me, that one should slam a synth because it doesn't fit one's needs. Some might say it's quite logical in fact.

The two demo's posted earlier. You could get the same sound from Reason 3.0, and that costs significantly less than the Nueron.

Put it this way: If you like to pay for WORDS in a synth, buy a Neuron. If you like to pay for SOUNDS in a synth, buy something a bit less high-brow.

[whyterabbyt]

You won't get huge numbers of voices on a Kyma either,

That really depends on what the voices are doing and how many DSP cards you have, surely?

[Majken]

Reason does seem like an odd comparison but having used Neruon VS and Reason 3 I have to agree and say that alot of the new combinator patches have that nice evolving soundscape feel that's in alot of the Neuron patches. And Reason is pretty much rock solid, cheaper and alot less cpu demanding. Sure it can't really do the morphing but it can create very nice evolving pads.

/Majken