Storm Studio, Reason, FL Studio, and Orion Platinum

[Cryogenic]

Moron.

I'm so glad you picked a word with no punctuation, and you even managed to get all 5 letters in the right order. A gold star for effort

So this is what you resort to now. Great. Get a life.

And post a link to your music, if you're capable.

[Kriminal]

well I have a couple of versions...anyway do you have a point?

my point is...i'm now off to the pub....

oh and thanks for remembering my host but not my name...

I bet you say that to all the boys



i don't think you ever told me anyway....

[Kriminal]

So this is what you resort to now.

No, i resorted to that a few posts back, do try to keep up, there's a good boy.

And post a link to your music, if you're capable.

Learn to use the forum and your mouse, clicky click...if you're capable.

ciao, pub calls....

[Cryogenic]

An alcoholic fucktard. Cool.

[Kriminal]

...fucktard...

i can see you are very fond of that word, but in order to make any kind of impact, i suggest learning some new insults, broaden your horizons a little.


ciao

[shamann]

And post a link to your music, if you're capable.

Well this whole thread is all very stupid, happens almost every time FL, Reason, or Orion are mentioned in the title.

In case you didn't know, the "www" link under a person's sceen name at KVR takes you to their website. A good chance you'll find lots of Krim's tracks there. But now that this has become a "you show me yours" kind of chestbeat fest, it'd be only proper for you to post some of your music to carry on your end of the battle. Since your www is missing, please post a link.

[snooky]

what's this all about then?

[CypherOne]

what's this all about then?

nothing, we've all been killing time 'til you got here

[soulkraka]

-- absurd --

[arke]

Here we go, another huge reply by me.

Enough of these short posts.

If you open a word document, and open up a table dialog, you can close it any time and open it up again. If you open an effect in FL, you can close it and open it again anytime. If you open the sequencer in Reason, you can close it and open it again any time. Nothing gets deleted.

So there is an infinitessimally small difference that you [and plenty of others] seem completely incapable of getting your head around, even though ORION warns you of what you are about to do. See, I look at it like I look at anything else I work with. If I have multiple windows open in Word or Photoshop or Xara, or anything else that allows me to open multiple windows, when I click on the little button with an "X" in it, they are gone, removed from the application completely. So if I just want the window out of the way, I minimise it. So visually it is completely the same for me and the only difference for you is that you tie a window to a project, even though a .sfs does not open in its own window the way the Word document you used as an example does. And I assume the Table dialog is modal, which means you have to close it to get back to your document? That's a completley different thing.

No, the table dialog is not modal. Or the layers dialog in Photoshop. Where have you been? And clicking the X on the actual document is like clicking the X on Orion or Reason itself - it closes the document, not the windows to interact with it.

In fact, its really pretty damn pretentious to reorganize the songs of other people because YOU think your way of organizing it is better.

I was talking about the way the demo songs in ORION are presented, which is what you were criticising. I was actually trying to be helpful.

So why didn't Rich take them then?

You're welcome to send me a "BONES" demo file, organized in the way that you work. Send it by email. I'm sure I won't like it.

Well, how nice. I just tried that and Orion locked up instantly. This is on a computer that just got a new install 3 days ago, and has almost nothing on it. FL has crashed on me maybe 2 or 3 times, every time because of plugins, and Reason hasn't crashed on me at all.

And yet I have somehow miraculously managed to do it thousands of times, on half a dozen different machines, with not so much as a stutter. I must be very lucky. Or maybe I just don't have any of those annoying, pointless Windows animations switched on. That probably wouldn't affect FL and Reason's non-standard GUI's.

...except that the first thing I did upon reinstall is change the resolution, turn off the themes, and the animations. And just for your info, Reason _does_ use a standard Windows GUI on Windows. I thought you actually tried the demo?

I think its sad that I have to skin an app to make it be useable on my perfectly fine 1024x768x16m screen.

Meanwhile, back in the 21st Century, we are all using decent sized screens. And customisng GUI's is one of the best things about music app's. Why should any of us have to conform to someone else's idea of good design? Maybe they work under very different conditions to me. Or maybe there is not a single GUI that is suitable for all conditions? Otherwise why would EnergyXT, FL and Live also be skinnable, at least in a limited way? Besides, I think you will find that the vast majority of users stick to the default skin.

Yes, the vast majority of users use the default skin. Including me. Because I don't want to be bothered to go through the entire process of making a new skin or finding one that suits me if, instead, I can just have it work like it is. And I can't say I don't spend time customizing stuff if I don't like it.

The reason for skins is that people have this absolute infatuation with things that look pretty. "Ooh, thats a pretty app, it must be good" "Wow, what lame colors, I'm sure that app sucks" (although it is justified for things like Babya Logic ).

...and is Wasp bad? I didn't think so.

Compared to WaspXT it is, very.

I'm saying on its own. Of course WaspXT is an improvement but the original sounds great as well for alot of situations.

Now, load up the "KiloMix" demo song, listen to it and you'll love the sound. Why? It's what you do with it after, and how it fits in with the rest.

But by then it could be any fkucing synth. The only 303 feature that makes it a 303 is that stupid tie/glide thing that you can use with several of ORION's generators and actually not need to post-process into the next century. It ain't got dick to do with the sound of the synth.

Yes, it does have to do with the synth. What makes a 303 a 303 is its filter. It's got an unusual 3 pole (18db/octave) filter with a very powerful resonator which makes it squeak like not many others. If it wasn't for the 303 modern synths, both HW and SW probably wouldn't have the range of resonance that they do. And yes, it sounds like shit on its own. But you know what? Use just one oscillator and the filter on Wasp and it wont sound much more exciting either. Remember, the 303 was made to be just a little bass line for guitarists to practice to.

Also, what effects does Rebirth give you? A lame delay, a lame compressor, a lame distortion, and a pattern controlled filter. Only one of each for the entire song. There's not that much that can even process.

Apart from that, why use any synth plugins at all then? I can just post process it to sound however I want, right? So why do all soft studios and sequencers still include more than one synth if I can do it all with effects? Your logic sucks (and so does Babyas, muahaha )

Aah, I see. So if I want to layer four synths, I have to do three mouse clicks times three, thats 9 mouse clicks. If I want to layer something in Reason, I slap it in a combinator. If I want to layer something in FL, I open the layer, (one click), select the channels (one long click, or whatever), then click "set children" (one click), amounting to three, maybe four clicks. That's less than half.

Intersting maths. For starts, its 6 clicks in ORION, you don't need to use a separate device which further clutters your workspace and its probably 5 clicks in FL, unless the instruments are handily all in a row. Of course, the real fact that is illuding you here is that I have never had to layer a part in ORION as things sound good all on their own.

I didn't go in and try it. And for me, the instruments are pretty much always in the same row.

Oh, does Orion have the nice Layer Randomize feature? I didn't think so. And your reply? "Only morons use that, its just a toy". You are so full of yourself that I almost think you're acting it and being a troll.

The FL Studio history doesn't say when zipped channels was added, but for version 1.4.0 (!) there was a bugfix for it.

I really don't think it goes back that far. I'm pretty sure it wasn't there at all when I started using it at 1.7 because I'm sure I remember it being introduced. But it could have been before 3.0

Well, why would Gol put a bugfix for a feature in 1.4.0 when he didn't even add it until 1.7? Read the history file at flstudio.com.

Hey, you know what? I want zipped mixer channels in Orion because the mixer channels keep scrolling off my small screen because you have to create a mixer channel for every damn instrument!

We actually got Rich all excited about it at one stage but I assume its not an easy thing for him to do. personally, I would never use it though because the greatest strength of ORION's workflow is actually being able to see what you're doing.

Personally, I never use zipping because one of the greatest strength's of FL Studio's workflow is actually being able to see what you're doing in the Step Sequencer.

I've got this cool drum template that zips up the sampler channels and has layers in its own channel group. It works quite well, and my step sequencer never goes off my tiny screen.

What is sidechaining, if I may ask? Seems like you're confused on the concept.

Sidechaining uses the dynamics of an audio channel to modulate another source. In ORION it can be used with a number of effects and on the Sampler's filter.

Cool. In FL Studio, I can be used with any automatable knob using the Peak controller. Why? How? Because it's the same exact damn thing. People keep asking why theres no sidechaining (and I used to be one of them) but its because the peak controller does the same thing except more flexible (and a bit harder to use if you're not used to it).

That is a joke of an EQ. A Fixed low shelf, a fixed high shelf, and two in the middle with only one having an adjustable Q, not to mention that its not at all visual. Compared to the MClass Equalizer, posishofit, or even the FL Parametric EQ, it's really laughable.

Really? Here we go again. Quality. A good EQ doesn't need any visual feedback, you can hear its quality. If you cannot get a sound right with 4 bands of EQ, fixed or otherwise, you should probably look for a new sound. The EQ's you mentioned are not the right sort of EQ for a mixer channel. If you want the whole shebang, you use the 6-band Parametric EQ as an insert or the new, super-tasty 3 Band Analogue EQ, although it probably wouldn't interest you as it has no flashing lights or little pictures to hold your attention.

Hey, you were the one saying that you like how your mixer tracks are lined up because it makes EQing easier. Well, guess what, if you have frequency turned down on one and all the way up on the other it looks the same from far away, I don't get how you can line it up and do it that way.

In FL, I load up a few parametrics or posishofit and place them above each other when stuff is being muddy. In Reason, I put an EQ for each instrument below the mixer. I can rearrange so that I visually see what frequencies each instrument gives me.

And no, I don't need flashy lights. The FL default VST GUI works fine for those that don't define their own, and sometimes I prefer it (Compressor). The Reason devices don't have excessively cool looking GUIs either. They're functional without looking like a 12 year old's webpage.

We should make another thread, "BONES and arke flamefest".

[arke]

Lets have a poll - do you prefer the single large reply (like me or BONES) or the many smaller replies (like Kriminal)? Maybe he's trying to get as many posts as vurt or something.

[2windy]

Since I started to use Orion, stunning women have fallen at my feet begging to pleasure me.

I also have Reason but every time I use it my armpit hair falls out and I have to wait for it to regrow!

I tried the FL demo but my girlfriend left me and my hands turned into parsnips.

I didn't even finish downloading storm before Al Pacino knocked at my door and told me in no uncertain terms that it would not be a wise move.

Surely, my experiences clearly show that Orion is the better soft studio? Anyone who disagrees is a wangsnagledunkler who should go buy buy an Atari and stick with Notator.

(Great thread btw!)

[shamann]

I took it that FL won. Edible hands are nothing to scoff at.

[speccyteccy]

I've just dl'd Orion Platinum and have the following observations. Please bear in mind that I'm comparing it to my host of choice, FLStudio, and also that I've only been using it for a couple of hours, so some of the problems I've found may have solutions - I'd be grateful to know. If I can be persuaded that it's better than FL, I will buy it!

First thing I wanted to do was to use the computer keyboard as a midi keyboard, so I searched (or at least thought I did) the help by typing "qwerty" and hitting enter. Took me to a long page that I had to read through but found no mention of the word "qwerty" - turns out the help doesn't have a search function (!!!), and it had just taken me to a page that contained the nearest thing - "quantize"!

Finally figured that I need to hit F12 to use the computer keyboard as midi – however, it loses focus as soon as I touch something else, like the mixer.

In the piano roll, I can't seem to paint notes horizontally.

No horizontal mouse scroll in the piano roll.

No wave editor?

Graphical glitches on title bar of piano roll and in main toolbar – stuff being drawn in the wrong place, like the “bar numbers”.

Is it possible to see piano roll and instrument at the same time? It seems you can only toggle between the two views. If not, that’s a big issue.

X’ing a synth deletes it – that is annoying, but I guess you’d get used to it.

Only four sub groups in the mixer?

Are there any spline or lfo drawing tools in event editor?

Can Orion do time stretching?

Can’t find anything like FL’s browser – which is ESSENTIAL for fast workflow – I’ve organised all my samples / patches / songs / midi files etc, and I can just drag these from the browser. I also love the fact that you can browse through your current project’s history, generators / fx (and their parameters), automation and remote control

Also had a quick look at the fx and synths – there seems to be a good selection of fx, but can’t say I’m impressed by the synths – none of them appear to have anything other than basic ADSR envelopes, which is a big downer.

In all fairness, as Orion 6 has just been released, I should be comparing it with FL6 which is just about to be released, although it’s probably a good thing (from Orion’s perspective) that I can’t do that – FL6 looks like a huge update.

Looks like my spare cash will be going elsewhere – unless, of course, someone can persuade me otherwise!

[arke]

Nice review speccyteccy. I'm sure many people have found it informative. Only problem for you is that you are now considered an idiot by Bones because you don't like closing synths. But, let's hope he forgets.