Sending high quality "CC" to energyXT as VST?

[druid]

Hi,

Since, at the moment, the modularity of energyXT is not to the extent where I can move instruemtns they way I want them, I've decided I shall be loading energyXT as a VST for each instrument, or something of the sort.

Now let's say I want to set CC2 to automate cutoff on a synth and I set it to "high res", but here's how it's connected:

Master In (midi) -> Sequencer.
energyXT VSTi sits inside sequencer.
Inside the energyXT plugin I have Master In (midi) -> sfz (or any synth) and then sfz (audio) -> Master Out.
In the main window I have sequencer (audio) -> Master Out.

If I automate CC2 in the main sequencer and send it through to energyXT VSTi so that it automates sfz (after appropriate CC mapping), will the high res stick or will it cut back to typical midi resolution?

I suspect, because it is being sent via midi to a plugin, even though it's another energyXT, it will send it as 0-127 rather than "high res" (presumably 32-bit).

If I wanted the higher resolution, would I have to automate it inside the energyXT VSTi plugin, or is there a way I can do that in the main energyXT window?

I hope I'm making myself clear, to me it's a complicated roundabout thing to do and I'm not confident I can explain properly.

[glurgle]

I beleive I understand what you are asking, and from the simple test I just devised (using a filter sweep on white noise to hear stepping) I'm fairly certain that energyXT keeps the midi data high resolution for plugins that are hosted within another instance of energyXT. I can hear a difference when switching from midi-res to high-res when the plugin is hosted directly in the sequencer, and hear the same difference when I put the same plugin inside another instance of energyXT hosted in the sequencer. Hope that made sense

[druid]

It does.

So why does a "high res" CC work anyway? I thought CC was limited to 0-127? If so, sending some 32-bit number wouldn't help if the program is interpreting it as midi and therefore is expecting 0-127, would it?

Or is Jorgen doing some weird tricky things...

[glurgle]

wierd tricky things energyXT has always translated CCs to VST automation (hence the ability to set a min and max value) jorgen has made it so that envelopes can now send a 32 bit value, and energyXT will recognise this. The VSTs never directly receive the CCs if that CC is assigned to a VST parameter using the CC mapper.

[ttwalter]

wierd tricky things energyXT has always translated CCs to VST automation (hence the ability to set a min and max value) jorgen has made it so that envelopes can now send a 32 bit value, and energyXT will recognise this. The VSTs never directly receive the CCs if that CC is assigned to a VST parameter using the CC mapper.

You forget time !

You change slow from 1 to 127 in 5 seconds.
Or from 1 to 127 you needet only 1 second.
Still the same numbers but now time is in it !

Thats where interpolating starts !

Greetings
Thomas

[ttwalter]

It does.

So why does a "high res" CC work anyway? I thought CC was limited to 0-127? If so, sending some 32-bit number wouldn't help if the program is interpreting it as midi and therefore is expecting 0-127, would it?

Or is Jorgen doing some weird tricky things...

Uhppss sorry !

I just wanted to reply on this question.

Sorry again !

Greetings
Thomas

[druid]

Well that's why I thought it wouldn't in my scenario, because energyXT does not have a parameter that a VST inside of it has. Say for cutoff, the VST inside energyXT has the parameter, but energyXT VSTi does not, so when energyXT VSTi receives a 32-bit CC, how does it know? Obviously it knows that the CC is assigned to cutoff in that plugin, but main energyXT does not know that.

Anyway, if it works, it works. Is there an easy way to test this? You mentioned a filter on top of noise and using a CC to sweep it. Is it obvious to the ears? Or obvious in a spectrum view of the waveform? Because I'd like to test that myself.

[druid]

I just tried it and it doesn't work.

Here's what DID work:

Master In -> Sequencer -> Master Out

Inside the sequencer I had two tracks, 'midi' and 'envelope'. I added 'Superwave' on the midi track and 'Crayon Filter' on the envelope track and right-clicked on the Superwave VSTi in the main mixer and put its output to the Crayon Filter. I mapped Cutoff to CC1 and made a 1 minute sweep from bottom to top.

It changes, and I have confirmed it visually with Audition, in midi-res I can see the steps (and hear them too) and in high-res it is smooth.

I tried adding Crayon Filter as an insert to the Superwave VSTi and routing the envelope to the midi track, but both resolutions did the same thing for me (only midi resolution). Perhaps I could've routed it another way, while still using Crayon Filter as an insert?

Anyway, I then started fresh, setup:

Master In -> Sequencer -> Master Out

Inside the sequencer I had two tracks, again 'midi' and 'envelope'. Right clicking on 'midi' and adding energyXT VSTi, and then routing 'envelope' to that VSTi as well.

Then I setup the same Supwerwave whitenoise instrument from before inside the energyXT VSTi, then output that through a Crayon Filter component, then to Master Out. I map cutoff in Crayon Filter to CC1 again, and run the sweep.. (from the sequencer in the main energyXT window which is sending midi data to my sub-energyXT VSTi)

Both resolutions do the same thing.

To me it seems the only way I can get high-res is to create an envelope track (or any track really), right-click on it and then 'add' a VST, and map accordingly, and route any VSTi to the inputs of added VST plugins. Otherwise I cannot see any other way of doing this. Sending CC through energyXT as a plugin seems to keep it midi-res despite my setting (which I was expecting but hoping not for), sending through a midi track to get to an insert seems to do the same. It seems I can only do it properly by adding them individually and routing the signals, all via the sequencer.

Am I right?

[druid]

Sorry to bump this message, but I'm still wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm completely right in what I wrote/assume.

[glurgle]

well I'll be buggered.... I'm seeing the same behaviour here, my ears must have been fooling me before. HOwever, you can get 32-bit value VSTs inside a eXT plugin by using the parameter mapper (just tested it to be sure). I just added a tip to assecas energyXT wiki here

[druid]

Aha! This works for me, thanks. Will tide me over at least until better automation and modular/sequencer integration is available.

[atomota]

To me it seems the only way I can get high-res is to create an envelope track (or any track really), right-click on it and then 'add' a VST, and map accordingly, and route any VSTi to the inputs of added VST plugins.

I just tried this and yes, I got the same results (although I haven't tried using eXT as an insert). I resurrected this old thread where Jorgen first implemented High res. Looks like he's doing some work on the envelopes now so maybe we'll find out what's what.