Storm Studio, Reason, FL Studio, and Orion Platinum

[arke]

And one more thing - I prefer things being in separate tabs because I HATE f**king HATE it when VST guis are bigger than my screen. Just another incentive for Reason, or the good old 3xOsc (Thank you Tony, the best soft synth evar!)

[BONES]

I'm talking about sytrus envelopes here, FL still has ADSRs built-in channels. The reason I switched for multipoint envelopes, is that they're 100% superior to ADSR's, and completely replace them. Unless I'm missing something.

I took a quick look at a Sytrus screenshot. Do your envelopes always start at zero? Why not have a start level?

[BONES]

And one more thing - I prefer things being in separate tabs because I HATE fkucing HATE it when VST guis are bigger than my screen. Just another incentive for Reason, or the good old 3xOsc (Thank you Tony, the best soft synth evar!)

I think you need to get out a lttle more often. 3xOsc is certainly one of the best synths in FL but I could easily put all that stuff in an easy-to-use single-page GUI that was less than half your screen size. Easily.

[tony tony chopper]

Do your envelopes always start at zero?

no, you can move the point freely

[arke]

And one more thing - I prefer things being in separate tabs because I HATE fkucing HATE it when VST guis are bigger than my screen. Just another incentive for Reason, or the good old 3xOsc (Thank you Tony, the best soft synth evar!)

I think you need to get out a lttle more often. 3xOsc is certainly one of the best synths in FL but I could easily put all that stuff in an easy-to-use single-page GUI that was less than half your screen size. Easily.

Please do!

[arke]

And when you do, don't forget the envelopes, the envelope tension, the LFOs, the Filters, the polyphony, and the portamento!

[speccyteccy]

Well, I like to route things around, process stuff, merge them back together

I like to use high quality sounds that don't require much assistance.

Again, timestretching is something I use quite often.

Without regard for the quality of the results? Right now, on the extremely rare ocassions when I might have a need for it, I would much rather do it non-realtime in CE2k, where I can be a little more certain of the quality.

If you drag it to the left of your screen, it snaps to a narrow vertical line just a few pixels wide - grab that and pull it in the opposite direction to see it again.

Yes, its always been like that but once closed I never felt the need to reopen it.

I still think there's better freeware synths out there.

Please point me in the direction of any softsynth with as good a resonant filter sound as WaspXT. Don't feel the need to restrict yourself to freebies.

Multi-point envelopes give you so many possibilites.

Not as many as an ADSR whose output can be inverted.
much simpler + more powerful = better.

Why? Is the quality of a product dependent on the number of versions it's at?

That was certainly what you inferred. I was just picking up the ball and running with it, so to speak.

Which are?

Bad workflow, poor internal instruments, bad layout.

Errr... how on Earth would that help? You can't see the envelope superimposed over the piano roll at the approriate scale, can you? You are absolutely going to have to use your ears in that situation, like every other that I can think of. Again, you need to free yourself from the process and concentrate on the results. Its a great mantra, try it.

You're just writing from your point of view! It seems someone else agrees that being able to see the notes being played whilst tweaking your synths is important if not essential.

So there are two idiots in the world. There's a revelation. Seriously, I'm not talking from "my point of view", its common sense. You need to hear those kinds of relationships. There is no way you can see two disparate things and make any kind of sense of them, its just not practical.

I bought FL because I thought it was the best of the ones listed, and I felt that anyone reading this thread would think (from all the shouting) that Orion was better.

And they'd be showing themselves to be intelligent, discerning professionals.

I don't agree. CM don't agree, and the KVR Poll doesn't either.

I would take the time to read the review before I sided with CM and, as I said earlier, the poll is only an indication of how many current users there are of each product. After all, how many Traktion users are going to vote for Podium? If you did the same thing for small cars in Australia the Toyota Corolla would win. That doesn't mean it isn't the most bland, unisnpiring, insipid piece of krap this side of a Hyundai, it just means people are fkucing idiots who go through their entire lives without a single opinion of their own to hang their hat upon.

I've even put my money where my mouth is - stating that I'll buy Orion Platinum IF I can be persuaded that it's better that FL. Not even close, even comparing Orion6 to FL5.

You mean by comparing features, on a page. How many projects did you create in each to compare the quality of the results with? 3? More? No, you just counted envelope segments and decided that FL had more, therfore it has to be better. OTOH, I used Fruityloops for a very long time before I switched to ORION, so who do you think has the deeper, more balanced perspective? And you can bleat all you like about all the really cool stuff that has been added since I stopped using but, in the end, you are still just counting features because very few of the things that made me give it away in the first place have been addressed in any useful, meaningful way. The Channel paradigm is way past its use-by date, the Playlist is an abortion and the GUI is a jumbled fkucing mess, despite having the most amazingly slick graphics I have ever seen on any piece of software. It has so much promise but it just fails to deliver on the really important things. OTOH, ORION is under-done in many areas but the results of which it is so effortlessly capable make up for those shortcomings tenfold.
But you are never going to understand that by spending an hour or two with the demo as it was never designed for instant gratification, it was made from the ground up to be a serious, professional tool. FL is undoubtedly an application for it's time which undoubtedly it's greatest failing.

From you comments about ADSR envelopes, time stretching (I find the quality of FL's Elastique engine excellent), routing and the browser, it seems like you've accepted the limitations in Orion and don't allow them to affect your work - I'm happy for you, but don't assume that others will accept them.

I think ASynth's filter sounds better than WaspXT's - and even if I didn't, one filter on one synth ain't going to persuade me to buy a host.

I also don't understand how inverting an ADSR envelope can possibly give you more options that a multi-stage envelope???

You say that FLs suffers from:

Bad workflow - obviously when you're used to one host, the workflow in another is more likely to seem clunky at first. I found Orion's workflow clunky, but fully accept that it would take some learning. I'd be really interested to know what particular areas of workflow are significantly easier in Orion though.

Poor internal instruments - have you tried Sytrus? P.S. If you can knock up a synth with ALL the Same functionality as 3xOSC (including all the sampler properties, sample import, the graphical envelopes and lfos, and the MIDI delay) in one screen, let me know - I'd probably buy it!

Bad Layout - well, similarly to Orion, you can actually move windows around and resize them, and you can actually have more than one instrument window open at a time, and I can customise the toolbar, and I don't have to have the status bar and windows title bar take up valuable screen estate.

It's also interesting that you think it's common sense about not requiring visual feedback - can't disagree more! Why do devs go to such effort to give us visual feedback? Because it helps?

I also did't for a moment suggest that the results of a poll or magazine review guarantees a product's quality, but they're both useful sources of information when evaluating a product.

Believe it or not, the "channel paradigm" works better for me than the fixed layout of Orion.

How many projects did I complete in Orion? Well, none obviously for the reasons I originally described, I found it too much of a pain to use. And, yes, I seriously would love to buy a new host (I have money to spare at the moment), but only if I can be convinced that they're going to help my way of working more than FL.

[Wopelka]

Believe it or not, the "channel paradigm" works better for me than the fixed layout of Orion.

100% agreed. this is one of the unique features that make FL different and so inspiring.

[arke]

P.S. If you can knock up a synth with ALL the Same functionality as 3xOSC (including all the sampler properties, sample import, the graphical envelopes and lfos, and the MIDI delay) in one screen, let me know - I'd probably buy it!

And so would I.

[arke]

Tony/Gol, ask JMC if you can make a VST version of the 3xOsc to sell to non-FL users. At a relatively low price, say $10-$20, you'll probably sell quite a bit. Only, of course, if you include all the sampler channel features you can use with it. Maybe add an EQ onto it too (which your VSTs do anyway, I believe).

[Kriminal]

I haven't done any music???
Oh well. One more of your victorious fantasies.

Well, you said yourself you didnt have any, and based on all you other bullshit posts, its safe to assume you are not capable.

Btw, you're stooping to your 'comfortable' level again

Seems to me you are the one growing comforatble there, a night away and you came straight back into the groove.

i'm just gonna say that i probably earn more money than you.

Lets not make statements on probabilities eh, it'll only end in tears. How much do they pay at McDonalds anyway?

[Kriminal]

I use the QWERTY keyboard a lot. The fact that it loses focus when I click anywhere else makes it unusable.

press F12 again then, you have two hands right? Better still, buy a controller. Who can possible do anything serious on a QWERTY pad

I've not found found a free wave editor that lets me set loop points as easily as FL's. And the colour scheme matches!

Yeah, cant beat pretty colours to improve your songwriting...

Well, it has done now, and for reasons discussed discussed above, it's a big issue for me.

so you can only do music if you can see what notes are being played?

Well, I like to route things around, process stuff, merge them back together, plus I need another sub-group if I'm recording for fold back. I'm still limited by FL's four sends, but that's all about to change!

Use an FX container....piece of cake.

I use the automation clips a lot, and the spline tool makes them easy to create and even easier to edit.

record it manually..oh no you cant, you need to see the notes at the same time....

I'd guessed that there maybe people reading this thread looking for sensible advice on which soft studio to buy. Of course I've got a vested interest in trying to persuade people to go with FL - more money to ImageLine - more development. I bought FL because I thought it was the best of the ones listed, and I felt that anyone reading this thread would think (from all the shouting) that Orion was better. I don't agree. CM don't agree, and the KVR Poll doesn't either. I've even put my money where my mouth is - stating that I'll buy Orion Platinum IF I can be persuaded that it's better that FL.

but i dont care if what you buy, nor does anyone else, its all down to what works best for an individual. Anyone who buys a product on someone else views is an idiot and deserves all they get.

[Kriminal]

Problem is that one click become n clicks very quickly!

No, its been one click since V1

[BONES]

I think ASynth's filter sounds better than WaspXT's - and even if I didn't, one filter on one synth ain't going to persuade me to buy a host.

Even if that was the only place you were going to ge tit? There's that no feeling for quality thing again.

I also don't understand how inverting an ADSR envelope can possibly give you more options that a multi-stage envelope???

Because when its inverted, it starts at maximum whereas teh kind of multi-stage envelopes I was thinking about always start at zero.

You say that FLs suffers from:
Bad workflow - obviously when you're used to one host, the workflow in another is more likely to seem clunky at first.

nice try Junior, but you're forgetting I lived with Fruity for 18 months before I even new ORION existed. So that's your neat, little theory down the gurgler. And before that was 18 or so years of all manner of hardware sequencers.

I found Orion's workflow clunky, but fully accept that it would take some learning. I'd be really interested to know what particular areas of workflow are significantly easier in Orion though.

Production.

Poor internal instruments - have you tried Sytrus?

Last time I looked, Sytrus cost extra. And yes, I have. Just a teeny, weeny littl ebit more than I would ever, in several life-times, need in a single instrument. Pointlessly complex in the landscape of software hosts. All that krap gets in the way of using it for any meaningful purpose.

It's also interesting that you think it's common sense about not requiring visual feedback - can't disagree more! Why do devs go to such effort to give us visual feedback? Because it helps?

... to ship product. It certainly doesn't help to make better sound.

I seriously would love to buy a new host (I have money to spare at the moment), but only if I can be convinced that they're going to help my way of working more than FL.

So Fruity is so good that you want to buy another host. That puts you right up there with that other idiot, arke, who thinks that FL is the duck's guts but has to use Reason to actually get anything done. I stopped so much as reading threads about other hosts years and years ago. I just don't need anything more. I even [happily] blew my dough on eXT because I really have no use for it. But its nice to be supportive, don't you think?
If you two weren't so pitiable it might actually be funny.

[Kriminal]

Tony/Gol, ask JMC if you can make a VST version of the 3xOsc to sell to non-FL users. At a relatively low price, say $10-$20, you'll probably sell quite a bit.

I doubt it, not with the quality of the free synths that are available now.