Storm Studio, Reason, FL Studio, and Orion Platinum

[speccyteccy]

And, yes, I seriously would love to buy a new host (I have money to spare at the moment), but only if I can be convinced that they're going to help my way of working more than FL.

then seriously: what about eXT?

I own eXT! But only bought it 'cos it allows me to draw wires between things! (Another excellent example of where visuals can help in music production!)

[jens]

And, yes, I seriously would love to buy a new host (I have money to spare at the moment), but only if I can be convinced that they're going to help my way of working more than FL.

then seriously: what about eXT?

I own eXT! But only bought it 'cos it allows me to draw wires between things! (Another excellent example of where visuals can help in music production!)

albeit it's perfectly cool to use it just for that it is of course also a full blown sequencer in it's own right so if you are really interested in trying to work with an alternative host then head over to the eXT forum and start throwing questions at us and ideas for improvements around... (it ain't Looptalk over there)

[Shane Sanders]

This thread has been highly entertaining.

I've used both Orion and FLStudio for a while. I think Orion has some terrific aspects in that it does have some quality synths and some good presets that you can quickly tweak to fit into your music. I like the effects, too. It's also easy to learn and projects open very quickly.

FLStudio has a workflow that is more fun for me, personally. It has more options, especially concerning routing and making some generators affect and control others, and thus a longer learning curve. But I don't think it's overwhelming at all. I'm lazy when it comes to technology, and if I can learn it, anyone can.

I change my mind a lot concerning instrumentation while composing, and FLS has many tools that make that hassle-free, such as the ability to save and import a mixer channel states (such as a tried and true combinations of compression and EQ on your favorite bass patches) or how easy it is to simply re-load a new VSTi into an existing arrangement without having to copy and paste all the parts into the new instrument. Being able to drag and drop a midi file onto a pattern is also nice and many other aspects of it are drag and drop, too. Additionally, Stylus RMX is much easier to use in FLS due to the drag and drop nature of the RMX capture feature, and this makes FLStudio more attractive to me as well. It just works better with the tools and instruments that I've chosen to use regularly.

That one thing, concerning the instrumentation switches, made me abandon Orion for FLS, but I still have some unfinished songs in Orion and still have to use it because it's time consuming to try to recreate work in another host (and this would be true no matter where the source work came from). Sadly, I've still managed to crash Orion half a dozen times in two days versus one crash in FLStudio. Even over three different systems that I've had since using Orion, I still feel it is less stable than other hosts in general. Doesn't seem to matter what drivers I'm using either.

[speccyteccy]

I use the QWERTY keyboard a lot. The fact that it loses focus when I click anywhere else makes it unusable.

press F12 again then, you have two hands right? Better still, buy a controller. Who can possible do anything serious on a QWERTY pad

I have a controller, but much of the time I don't need it nor want it in the way of my qwerty kb.

I've not found found a free wave editor that lets me set loop points as easily as FL's. And the colour scheme matches!

Yeah, cant beat pretty colours to improve your songwriting...

I personally believe the entire environment in which you compose has a direct effect on the results.

Well, it has done now, and for reasons discussed discussed above, it's a big issue for me.

so you can only do music if you can see what notes are being played?

I don't think I said that, it just helps, and once you've had that functionality in FL, it's hard to go back.

Well, I like to route things around, process stuff, merge them back together, plus I need another sub-group if I'm recording for fold back. I'm still limited by FL's four sends, but that's all about to change!

Use an FX container....piece of cake.

Cool. I'll have to have a play with that and see if it's as flexible as FL6's routing.

I use the automation clips a lot, and the spline tool makes them easy to create and even easier to edit.

record it manually..oh no you cant, you need to see the notes at the same time....

Well, in FL I can record automation whilst seeing the notes being played, but recorded automation is much harder to edit than spline or lfo based.

I'd guessed that there maybe people reading this thread looking for sensible advice on which soft studio to buy. Of course I've got a vested interest in trying to persuade people to go with FL - more money to ImageLine - more development. I bought FL because I thought it was the best of the ones listed, and I felt that anyone reading this thread would think (from all the shouting) that Orion was better. I don't agree. CM don't agree, and the KVR Poll doesn't either. I've even put my money where my mouth is - stating that I'll buy Orion Platinum IF I can be persuaded that it's better that FL.

but i dont care if what you buy, nor does anyone else, its all down to what works best for an individual. Anyone who buys a product on someone else views is an idiot and deserves all they get.

Hands up anyone who's ever bought something on the recommendation of someone else - you're all idiots!

[speccyteccy]

Problem is that one click become n clicks very quickly!

No, its been one click since V1

My point was that it's one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument, then one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument,one click to switch to the piano roll, then another to switch back to the instrument....

[speccyteccy]

I think ASynth's filter sounds better than WaspXT's - and even if I didn't, one filter on one synth ain't going to persuade me to buy a host.

Even if that was the only place you were going to ge tit? There's that no feeling for quality thing again.

Probably not worth the money, but as I already said, I don't even think it's that unique.

I also don't understand how inverting an ADSR envelope can possibly give you more options that a multi-stage envelope???

Because when its inverted, it starts at maximum whereas teh kind of multi-stage envelopes I was thinking about always start at zero.

I understand how inverting an ADSR envelope works, but still can't appreciate how that can possibly be better than a multi-stage envelope???

You say that FLs suffers from:
Bad workflow - obviously when you're used to one host, the workflow in another is more likely to seem clunky at first.

nice try Junior, but you're forgetting I lived with Fruity for 18 months before I even new ORION existed. So that's your neat, little theory down the gurgler. And before that was 18 or so years of all manner of hardware sequencers.

So what, exactly, is wrong with FL's workflow?

I found Orion's workflow clunky, but fully accept that it would take some learning. I'd be really interested to know what particular areas of workflow are significantly easier in Orion though.

Production.

Poor internal instruments - have you tried Sytrus?

Last time I looked, Sytrus cost extra. And yes, I have. Just a teeny, weeny littl ebit more than I would ever, in several life-times, need in a single instrument. Pointlessly complex in the landscape of software hosts. All that krap gets in the way of using it for any meaningful purpose.

I downloaded Orion Platinum ($299) which I assumed was the top of the range package, hence I'm comparing it with FLStudio XXL ($299) which includes Sytrus.

Again, if you're happy with the limitations of Orion's synths, then I'm happy for you, but don't expect everyone else to accept those limitations!

It's also interesting that you think it's common sense about not requiring visual feedback - can't disagree more! Why do devs go to such effort to give us visual feedback? Because it helps?

... to ship product. It certainly doesn't help to make better sound.

We'll have to agree to disagree here - I stand by my opinion that visual feedback helps composition.

I seriously would love to buy a new host (I have money to spare at the moment), but only if I can be convinced that they're going to help my way of working more than FL.

So Fruity is so good that you want to buy another host. That puts you right up there with that other idiot, arke, who thinks that FL is the duck's guts but has to use Reason to actually get anything done. I stopped so much as reading threads about other hosts years and years ago.

That makes sense - you've not read this thread, but you're happy to post in it.

I just don't need anything more. I even [happily] blew my dough on eXT because I really have no use for it. But its nice to be supportive, don't you think?
If you two weren't so pitiable it might actually be funny.

As I tried to explain, I only want to buy another host IF I can be persuaded that it's better than FL. I bought eXT too - it IS nice to be supportive!

And in my everlasting quest of self improvement, could you please let me know why you consider me to be "pitiable"?

[Kriminal]

Again, if you're happy with the limitations of Orion's synths, then I'm happy for you, but don't expect everyone else to accept those limitations!

What limitations? I cant think of a single sound i cant get with the native synths, you just need some programming skills.

[Kriminal]

Well, in FL I can record automation whilst seeing the notes being played, but recorded automation is much harder to edit than spline or lfo based.

I record everything manually, then, if i need to, edit it manually in the Event Editor, it cant get much easier and more accurate than that. I cant see tha appeal of pre made shapes and splines, too rigid for my liking.

[Shane Sanders]

Another cool feature of Orion is that you can select two patterns in the arrangement window and merge them and it automatically makes a third.

A drawback would be that when you are doing editing to a long pattern on the fly, the visual representation of the notes snaps back to the start of the loop when it reaches the end. This makes it a pain to do micro edits if the line you happen to be working on is longer than your screen area. Zooming won't help because you need the detail. Sometimes you need to hear the information before and after the edit area without having to rescroll back to where your edit is taking place.

A cool feature of FLS is that this doesn't happen and the grid seems more flexible in terms of various snapping presets. Additionally the arrangement window still allows you to click on a pattern and hear only that pattern. In Orion, once you start putting patterns in the arrangement window and need to go back into pattern mode, you're gonna hear everything all at once which is baffing to me.

Orion also won't show you where an audio file lives on your computer once its placed in the arrangement window (unless I'm missing something obvious). You can delete it, but you can't get any information about where it's pointing. FLS doesn't have this problem, either.

[Kriminal]

I assume no-one uses Storm then

[jens]

I assume no-one uses Storm then

I used it and it sounds great and has some great feautures - but V3 doesn't work as a vsti anymore - I have to dig out my V2 once again - imo it's ridiculous to say it's a toy - it only show that the one who says it either didn't really try it or hasn't got a clue...

[ModuLR]

I use Storm for everything! all your hosts suck! tossers! (btw, what's a tosser?) (uhh... and I've never used storm, but it rocks! )

[Kriminal]

P5 hasnt had a look in either, do the users of those two apps not like to get down and dirty with the rest of us?

[Kriminal]

btw, what's a tosser?

someone who uses Cubarse

[jens]

I'm a P5 user as well but no thanks - I like clever dissing!