LiveSlice - Some FRs

[DarkStar]

ohm, hi there,

I like the sound and look of this VSTi, easy to use, once I had grasped a few basics and very flexible - well done. I have been exploring the demo v1.04 for 2 hours or so - no crashes (in energyXT).

So I would like to suggest a few(!) FRs:

• drag a slice from Slicer into Arrangement track position (maps the slice),
• drag an Arrangement Event from one position to another in the track,
• provide Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v to copy a slice to an Event,
• provide Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v to copy Events (copies all parameters too),
• an undo function - Ctrl+z (preferably multiple Undos),
• use the same keys to delete slice in Slicer and delete Event in Arranger (Ctrl+RMB ?),
• use right-click in the Arranger track to audition an event (just as it does in the Slicer), use another command to erase the Event,
• drag a loop from Windows Explorer (or the host's browser) onto an empty Loops slot,
• provide horizontal zoom and scroll in Slicer and Arranger to enable precise slicing and event positioning,
• duplicate a track to another track,
• duplicate an Arrangement (all tracks) to another one,
• change the mouse pointer to a double-headed arrow when it is over the area for dragging a slice or event position point,
• can you make the window slightly taller, so you can see 2 (o3 or 4) complete tacks and the [Add Track} button?
• make the VST parameters visible to the host, for automation in the host (mind you, I like the control table on the Setting page a lot).

And finally, I could not find a MIDI Velocity sensitivity control? Is there one, if not, can it be added (as a global setting, perhaps)?

[shamann]

[*] drag an Arrangement Event from one position to another in the track,

I assume you mean dragging arrangement slot 1 to arangement slot 10, or something like that? You can already copy an arrangement slot to another. Highlight your source slot with a left click, then right click on your destination slot. Drag and drop would be useful still, as it would eliminate a few extra mouse clicks. Correct me if I misread.

Similarly, I was thinking drag and drop for tracks within an arrangement would be great, both re-arranging the order of tracks (ie drag the bottom track to the top) and dragging a track to another arrangement (where it would appear as the bottom track in the destination arrangement). I find I'll create a track in a new arrangement slot when in idea mode, but then want to play it together with a track from another arrangement later on. Wouldn't have to be drag and drop even, just a copy/cut/paste track function (which works in with your duplicate track request, so I second ).

[ohm]

Those are great ideas, some of them new even I'll comment in more detail tomorrow. I'm GMT+1 here.

'night

[DarkStar]

shamann, thanks for the info.

Yes I did mean copying from one slot to another (but not going back to the slices)

You can already copy an arrangement slot to another. Highlight your source slot with a left click, then right click on your destination slot.

But I could not get this to work (v1.04) - clicking an arrangment slot did not do anything and right-clicking in another arrangement slot deleted the sample from it.

[R.A.W.]

here my personal 0.02

• drag a slice from Slicer into Arrangement track position (maps the slice)

nice to have, you got my vote

• provide Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v to copy a slice to an Event
• provide Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v to copy Events (copies all parameters too)

copy/paste-functions are planned, i think providing the standard os-keyboard-shortcuts might not be a big problem.

• an undo function - Ctrl+z (preferably multiple Undos)

nice to have, depends on how many resources (memory etc.) it would take.. if it takes too much i'd prefer to have a fast slicer for live situations without undo and if i accidently do something totally stupid, i just click lock to loop and start over again.. i like jamming.

• use the same keys to delete slice in Slicer and delete Event in Arranger (Ctrl+RMB ?)

as slicing is supposed to be done as preparation i don't mind to have it a keybord+mouse command, but arranging is meant to be done live too, so it is the intention to have the basic functions to be done with preferably one action so i think deleting events in the arranger should stay on rightclick only.
another option would be to introduce middle-click - perhaps using middle-click for deleting in every section and right-click for audition?

• use right-click in the Arranger track to audition an event (just as it does in the Slicer), use another command to erase the Event

to let you determine what the event is (bassdrum, snare or whatever), ohm implemented the visual stuff with colors based on the frequency. i don't really need to preview events in the arranger, but if the middle-click-solution is an option for ohm, it wouldn't be a prob.

• drag a loop from Windows Explorer (or the host's browser) onto an empty Loops slot

drag'n'drop is planned, at least importing loops from the build-in file-browser. i'm not sure on dragging from windows-explorer and host though.

• provide horizontal zoom and scroll in Slicer and Arranger to enable precise slicing and event positioning

planned

• duplicate an Arrangement (all tracks) to another one

already answered by shamann

• change the mouse pointer to a double-headed arrow when it is over the area for dragging a slice or event position point

good idea.

• can you make the window slightly taller, so you can see 2 (o3 or 4) complete tacks and the [Add Track} button?

you can change the number of visible tracks in the settings. after you added one track, the whole arrangement is scrolled down so you see the last add track button. as mousewheel support is coming up, a slightly taller arrangement view to fit the button might not be necessary anymore.

• make the VST parameters visible to the host, for automation in the host (mind you, I like the control table on the Setting page a lot).

[/list]

as that would be a veeeery loooong list, ohm decided to concentrate on the midi-mapping possibilities which you can set up perfectly fitting your current usage. as you use energyXT you can use the envelope tracks quite well then. (downloaded the demo of energyXT today - n1, i think i know what i'll purchase soon )

- wow, took me too long to write so ohm already responded

[shamann]

I think we might be talking about different things. I'm referring to the arrangement slots at the bottom of the screen:



When you left click a slot, it should highlight with a black frame. Then right click on the next slot (where the mouse pointer is in the pic) and it'll copy. I'm at work, so only have access to the demo version, but it just worked for me.

Do you mean copying/pasting a slice in an arrangement track (each arrangement of slices in the middle pane is called a track, I'm calling the collection of tracks represented at the bottom as arrangement slots for lack of an official term)? If so, I don't think that can be done. It would be useful to copy slices within a track, since you could move all of the parameter settings for that slice with it.

[DarkStar]

R.A.W, thanks for the feedback.

here my personal 0.02

• can you make the window slightly taller, so you can see 2 (o3 or 4) complete tacks and the [Add Track} button?

[/list]

you can change the number of visible tracks in the settings. after you added one track, the whole arrangement is scrolled down so you see the last add track button. as mousewheel support is coming up, a slightly taller arrangement view to fit the button might not be necessary anymore.

yep, I got that, but what I meant was, for example, if you are displaying two tracks, you have to scroll down to see the [Add track] button and after you have clicked it the first line of controls [M] etc for the upper track is scrolled out of view. So you have to scroll up again to see them. Then the [Add track] button is scrolled out of view. . .

• make the VST parameters visible to the host, for automation in the host (mind you, I like the control table on the Setting page a lot)

as that would be a veeeery loooong list, ohm decided to concentrate on the midi-mapping possibilities which you can set up perfectly fitting your current usage. As you use energyXT you can use the envelope tracks quite well then. (downloaded the demo of energyXT today - n1, i think i know what i'll purchase soon )

Fair enough - how long a list?

[btw: Have a look at the energyXT Beginners' Guides (link to them is in my sig)]

[DarkStar]

I think we might be talking about different things. I'm referring to the arrangement slots at the bottom of the screen:



When you left click a slot, it should highlight with a black frame. Then right click on the next slot (where the mouse pointer is in the pic) and it'll copy. I'm at work, so only have access to the demo version, but it just worked for me.

Do you mean copying/pasting a slice in an arrangement track (each arrangement of slices in the middle pane is called a track, I'm calling the collection of tracks represented at the bottom as arrangement slots for lack of an official term)? If so, I don't think that can be done. It would be useful to copy slices within a track, since you could move all of the parameter settings for that slice with it.

yep, you're right - we are referring to different things. I was talking about the events in a track in the Arranger. And copying the parameter values was one reason behind my request to copy the Events

Copying the Arrangments in the bottom set of 24 slots works as you said.

[shamann]

Fair enough - how long a list?

Really long, considering the number of parameters per slice per track. Also would change as you add tracks.

But, another solution is parameter mapping, like it is implemented in eXT or Bidule. Liveslice could have 128 VST parameters exposed to the host, and have a param mapping function (say another screen like 'Settings') where you could match as many internal parameters to any given host-side parameter. It might take ohm some time to implement, though.

[R.A.W.]

Do you mean copying/pasting a slice in an arrangement track (each arrangement of slices in the middle pane is called a track, I'm calling the collection of tracks represented at the bottom as arrangement slots for lack of an official term)? If so, I don't think that can be done. It would be useful to copy slices within a track, since you could move all of the parameter settings for that slice with it.

i'm sure that ohm can do it - it could be done by changing the functionality as soon as you reach the edge of the surrounding events of the event you are currently dragging. when that happens it could change to swap with the event you drop the dragged event or if you drop it at at a gap in the track it just snaps there and leaves the former position empty.. just like reseq and swap on randomizing, only with two/one slices.
ok, to be exact that would be cut/paste, but copy could be done by ctrl+drag with lmb (and deleting the event you drop on).

or did i get you both totally wrong here? - well, doesn't matter, i like the idea anyway.

[btw: Have a look at the energyXT Beginners' Guides (link to them is in my sig)]

been there, done that, after googling this afternoon - but i have to say that though eXT has complex possibilities it was mostly self-explanatory and intuitive to me, very nice. and i really like the built-in cc-to-vst-mapper. played around with eXT at work quite long and the standalone-demo is perfect to fast-check plugins on my company-notebook.

[shamann]

i'm sure that ohm can do it - it could be done by changing the functionality as soon as you reach the edge of the surrounding events of the event you are currently dragging. when that happens it could change to swap with the event you drop the dragged event or if you drop it at at a gap in the track it just snaps there and leaves the former position empty.. just like reseq and swap on randomizing, only with two/one slices.
ok, to be exact that would be cut/paste, but copy could be done by ctrl+drag with lmb (and deleting the event you drop on).

Oh I'm sure he could do it, I only meant it can't be done at present. I think it might even be easier if there was just "Copy/swap" parameter mode, just another button in with pitch, volume etc. Once in that function mode, left click drag&drop could be swap, right click drag&drop could be copy.

[ohm]

* drag a slice from Slicer into Arrangement track position (maps the slice)
* drag an Arrangement Event from one position to another in the track,

ok

* provide Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v to copy a slice to an Event,
* provide Ctrl+c and Ctrl+v to copy Events (copies all parameters too),

shamann:

drag and drop for tracks

copy / paste is planned. Getting keyboard input in all hosts is a different matter, will look into it. I'll add "copy active parameter" and "shift / ctrl select Events too at some point", and tracks too.

* an undo function - Ctrl+z (preferably multiple Undos),

that will have to wait, at least the multiple undo's

* use the same keys to delete slice in Slicer and delete Event in Arranger (Ctrl+RMB ?),
* use right-click in the Arranger track to audition an event (just as it does in the Slicer), use another command to erase the Event,

consistency is good, but R.A.W.s points about fast arranging are important too. Middle mouse as an alternative to CTRL+RMB to delete stuff everywhere is very good. Then right click to preview anywhere. Dragging or left clicking to move

* drag a loop from Windows Explorer (or the host's browser) onto an empty Loops slot,

planned would be nice in energy xt where you tend to have the browser open all the time, and get used to dragging everything all the time

* provide horizontal zoom and scroll in Slicer and Arranger to enable precise slicing and event positioning,

already on my list

* change the mouse pointer to a double-headed arrow when it is over the area for dragging a slice or event position point

noted

* can you make the window slightly taller, so you can see 2 (o3 or 4) complete tacks and the [Add Track} button?

yep, I just thought it was prettier without the lonely button below the tracks, point taken though.

* make the VST parameters visible to the host, for automation in the host (mind you, I like the control table on the Setting page a lot).

the only way of doing this would be parameter mapping requiring a fair amount of time consuming gui work and parameter save / recall stuff, but ok.
I'm thinking that maybe I can use the midi mapper actually, so LiveSlice will have 16 parameters called "note" 1 for each midi channel, and then 128 parameters corresponding to all CC's on channel 1.
Then when you clicked the mouse on an arrangement slot it would send automation for parameter "note 1"

I'd rather leave it with midi though. It's much better to control liveslice with a standard midi controller than with the mouse (ie you can only play back one arrangement at a time using the mouse)

MIDI Velocity sensitivity control

as in velocity curve or just on off?

[ohm]

regarding the copy / swap stuff I prefer using CTRL + drag to copy, since it's a convention (works in text editors etc.) it even works in this text edit field I'm using now

[DarkStar]

ohm - many thanks for commenting on my dreams:

- a velocity curve would be great.

- a single Undo would help a lot, so I can backtrack (no pun intended) on bad experiments.

yep, I just thought it was prettier without the lonely button below the tracks, point taken though.

- true, perhaps you could put it on the "Arranger Beats [4] line" just above the tracks?


Oh and one more:
Ability to load loops of 64 (or even 128) beats, but only when the scrolling is implemented.

[ohm]

Ability to load loops of 64 (or even 128) beats, but only when the scrolling is implemented.

I agree.