This is a thread to help Sonic Reality smooth out some of the bugs they have in their sounds - I haven't been keeping track so these are only a few of what I've found most recently, but I'll start it off:
-23 VLNS STACC AMV - E5 is mapped to D#5
-TIMPANI HIT - Entirely about a half-step flat
-11 VIOLINS 1 - C#5..E5, when stretch is enabled, all sound a D#5
-11 VIOLINS EXPR 1 SLOW - D5..F#5, when stretch is enabled, all sound a D#5
(beginning to sense a pattern, but I haven't encountered this problem in any other cases in recent memory)
(oh, wait..)
-11 VIOLINS EXPR 1 FAST - D#5..F#5, when stretch is enabled, all sound a D#5
Anyway, that's all for now. I'll add more when I re-encounter them (or encounter them, if I haven't seen them yet). Add all the ones you find yourself - be sure to put them in BOLD and CAPITAL so that they stand out - just to make it easier for Sonic Reality to go through and fix them for the upcoming pre-November-19th update.
Philharmonik Sound Discussion Thread
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- KVRian
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
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- KVRist
- 233 posts since 10 Aug, 2004
BASSOON 1
I'm not sure if the numbering starts with C or A so this is either A3 or A4 (its between C3 and C4) - very harsh note - if you put stretch on, the anomilies in the note do some odd things.
I've run into those same notes accross several keys as well in stretch in a few cases.
I usually just put stretch on all though and then turn on zone mode and turn stretch off for that zone. Seems to be a decent work around for most of these issues.
steve
I'm not sure if the numbering starts with C or A so this is either A3 or A4 (its between C3 and C4) - very harsh note - if you put stretch on, the anomilies in the note do some odd things.
I've run into those same notes accross several keys as well in stretch in a few cases.
I usually just put stretch on all though and then turn on zone mode and turn stretch off for that zone. Seems to be a decent work around for most of these issues.
steve
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
I'm not sure that counts as a sounds bug - many different notes on many different patches all have similar problems using STRETCH, so I imagine that it's IK's problem with this one.
Anyway, I haven't found any more new ones so far myself
I'll be sure to post them here when I find them, though.
I'm really looking forward to the November update, even if these aren't fixed (no guarantee, after all - the schedule could be too tight for Sonic Reality). I'm really glad that IK finally guaranteed 100% that it's going to fix the problem on a 100% timeframe
. Although I don't really know what would happen if they were to break their guarantee again... I assume I would have to ask for my money back or something, but eSoundz is the one who has my money, not IK. It seems like asking for my money back from eSoundz wouldn't be fair to them, but just returning the software wouldn't really be fair given the time I've spent trying to help IK out. Difficult situation... I'm just going to hope that their guarantees mean something after all
Anyway, I haven't found any more new ones so far myself
I'll be sure to post them here when I find them, though.I'm really looking forward to the November update, even if these aren't fixed (no guarantee, after all - the schedule could be too tight for Sonic Reality). I'm really glad that IK finally guaranteed 100% that it's going to fix the problem on a 100% timeframe
. Although I don't really know what would happen if they were to break their guarantee again... I assume I would have to ask for my money back or something, but eSoundz is the one who has my money, not IK. It seems like asking for my money back from eSoundz wouldn't be fair to them, but just returning the software wouldn't really be fair given the time I've spent trying to help IK out. Difficult situation... I'm just going to hope that their guarantees mean something after all -
- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
These reports are also ok to email me direct dave@sonicreality.com If anyone is really good at finding issues and wants to beta test SR sounds for products then let us know. We're always interested. Meanwhile we will investigate some of the things mentioned in this thread.
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- KVRist
- 233 posts since 10 Aug, 2004
The only real bug i've found is that note spanned over several notes issues. Other than that the only thing i could ask for to be different is the tree-list to be mouse-wheel sensitive - thats probably more of an IK request though, so not sure. I don't have a library yet with all perfect samples and i think that would be next to impossible to do. The stretch feature is very nice in this though it does have some side effects in some cases (1 high note zone in the one of the flute samples when stretched can turn that zone into more of a high pitched oboe). 99% of the time though, it does a great job and for anything with vibrato, I pretty much immediately turn that on and just test the zones.
One question Squids, in some cases where the rosin noise is more apparent than others, is there a reommended way to reduce that if you want to tone that down? I've noticed that in all 4 of my orchestra libraries to different degrees and have had some luck with just EQ but wonder if theress not a slightly better way.
Thanks,
steve
One question Squids, in some cases where the rosin noise is more apparent than others, is there a reommended way to reduce that if you want to tone that down? I've noticed that in all 4 of my orchestra libraries to different degrees and have had some luck with just EQ but wonder if theress not a slightly better way.
Thanks,
steve
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
EQ or filtering. Depends. Sometimes both. Although keep in mind that oddly enough this "air" can often contribute to a more realistic sound since strings players really do make that sound in recordings. If you take it out too much it could sound like something is missing. But, one can always tweak it to their liking.
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
I think this thread is an excellent idea - although it would probably be better to email Squids directly.
Having said that, there are a couple of points I'd like to make:
1) Stretch isn't designed to work with everything. It can sound awesome with the right material, but it's a new technology (compared to technolgies such as regular resampling and filtering). It's another tool in the toolbox, if you like. The filters in Philharmonik sound good sometimes, but won't be appropriate on everything. The built-in distortion and lo-fi effects sound good sometimes, but won't be appropriate on everything. Likewise, Stretch sounds good sometimes, but won't be appropriate on everything. Everything in Philharmonik actually sounds awesome without Stretch, so it's hardly a necessary ingredient.
2) If you find a tuning problem, then Sonic Reality definitely need to know about it. In the mean time though, you can use zone edit to adjust the tuning of a particular zone, and save it back as a child patch.
-Kim.
Having said that, there are a couple of points I'd like to make:
1) Stretch isn't designed to work with everything. It can sound awesome with the right material, but it's a new technology (compared to technolgies such as regular resampling and filtering). It's another tool in the toolbox, if you like. The filters in Philharmonik sound good sometimes, but won't be appropriate on everything. The built-in distortion and lo-fi effects sound good sometimes, but won't be appropriate on everything. Likewise, Stretch sounds good sometimes, but won't be appropriate on everything. Everything in Philharmonik actually sounds awesome without Stretch, so it's hardly a necessary ingredient.
2) If you find a tuning problem, then Sonic Reality definitely need to know about it. In the mean time though, you can use zone edit to adjust the tuning of a particular zone, and save it back as a child patch.
-Kim.
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- KVRian
- 541 posts since 1 Jan, 2004
Solo trombone portato has a repeating click at the end which sounds like a loop may have been left on. It appears in the bottom octave of the instrument on A and Ab.
There is also a poor wobbly vibrato on some notes in the 4 violins instrument (otherwise it's a beautiful preset).
A few of the 'expd' instruments don't actually do anything when cc#11 is moved.
I'll try to get more specific and post some more.
With this many presets there just about has to be some programming flubs.
It's not a big deal though, there is always something else that can be used in Philharmonik!
There is also a poor wobbly vibrato on some notes in the 4 violins instrument (otherwise it's a beautiful preset).
A few of the 'expd' instruments don't actually do anything when cc#11 is moved.
I'll try to get more specific and post some more.
With this many presets there just about has to be some programming flubs.
It's not a big deal though, there is always something else that can be used in Philharmonik!
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
I'm not posting from my music computer so I don't remember the exact name, but
- VIOLAS DETACHE - is also a little flat (at least from the rest of the strings ensemble patches). In the mean time I've got it adjusted manually, as Kim suggested - the detuned version makes this really funny sound when it's part of a full string orchestra, though.
Also, I have a suggestion for all -AMV patches - it's not so much an error but I think it makes sense. Does anyone else feel that the VStart parameter is set way too high on these patches? It makes playing at low velocity sound too unrealistic and I always end up turning it to about 10 o'clock (it starts out at around 2 o'clock-3 o'clock). Obviously someone else may have a differing opinion, but if nobody does (why would they?) then I think it would make sense to change it for all the AMV (I don't know if it's automated or if its manual... would be kind of a hassle to redo them all if its manual, eh?)
That's all for this update I'm glad that SR is looking into obvious tuning bugs. I think it's better to have a thread for this sort of thing than to e-mail directly, because different users can discuss, corroborate, and ferret out problems, see if they're recurring, and generally get more done together as a community than they would if it were just individuals. Look how well it works for energyXT
- VIOLAS DETACHE - is also a little flat (at least from the rest of the strings ensemble patches). In the mean time I've got it adjusted manually, as Kim suggested - the detuned version makes this really funny sound when it's part of a full string orchestra, though
.Also, I have a suggestion for all -AMV patches - it's not so much an error but I think it makes sense. Does anyone else feel that the VStart parameter is set way too high on these patches? It makes playing at low velocity sound too unrealistic and I always end up turning it to about 10 o'clock (it starts out at around 2 o'clock-3 o'clock). Obviously someone else may have a differing opinion, but if nobody does (why would they?) then I think it would make sense to change it for all the AMV (I don't know if it's automated or if its manual... would be kind of a hassle to redo them all if its manual, eh?)
That's all for this update
I'm glad that SR is looking into obvious tuning bugs. I think it's better to have a thread for this sort of thing than to e-mail directly, because different users can discuss, corroborate, and ferret out problems, see if they're recurring, and generally get more done together as a community than they would if it were just individuals. Look how well it works for energyXT -
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
Hm...
- BASSES 1, BASSES STACC, 23 VIOLINS STACC 1 - are all out of tune. I didn't notice these before, but it's really standing out now that I'm fine-tuning a full Philharmonik orchestral setup. Sounds much better now that I've got them in tune I remember there being more, like BASSES DETACHE, that are out of tune, but I'm not worrying about anything that I'm not currently working with at the moment - if I encounter more, I will post them.
- BASSES 1, BASSES STACC, 23 VIOLINS STACC 1 - are all out of tune. I didn't notice these before, but it's really standing out now that I'm fine-tuning a full Philharmonik orchestral setup. Sounds much better now that I've got them in tune
I remember there being more, like BASSES DETACHE, that are out of tune, but I'm not worrying about anything that I'm not currently working with at the moment - if I encounter more, I will post them.-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
- TIMPANI HALL B - out of tune above Eb2
- STNWY PIANO PEDAL - some talking, later on in the samples.
- HARP FULL RANGE - E4 is a little flat - kind of ambiguous, actually, so I could be wrong
- STNWY PIANO PEDAL - some talking, later on in the samples.
- HARP FULL RANGE - E4 is a little flat - kind of ambiguous, actually, so I could be wrong
Last edited by Rellik on Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 58 posts since 24 Jun, 2002 from UK
Wait a minute, Is this all for real? are there out of tune instruments? if that is the case surely it's not exceptable, Squids can you please clarify this, I don't expect to have to tune things myself.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
"Is this all for real?"
I wouldn't be too hard on SR, but yes, of course these are for real - at least that's the way I hear it, and I doubt that I am hearing tuning problems that just plain aren't there (although it's possible, right?)
You're bound to find tuning issues in sample libraries that are of such a size (AFAIK). It's no big deal to me, because I tend to catch it and correct it - and by having this thread, I think it can help SR fix these problems for the next release. The people it kind of sucks for are people who can't really tell when something is out of tune, because they'll think something sounds funny/bad but won't really know how to fix it.
But again, no, it's not acceptable for the long run, but this is the INITIAL release, there hasn't been an update yet (although there will be within a week or so), so I wouldn't be too critical of anyone for these tuning and other problems that crop up in several places.
Feel free to contribute if you find any sounds-related bugs yourself!
I wouldn't be too hard on SR, but yes, of course these are for real - at least that's the way I hear it, and I doubt that I am hearing tuning problems that just plain aren't there (although it's possible, right?)
You're bound to find tuning issues in sample libraries that are of such a size (AFAIK). It's no big deal to me, because I tend to catch it and correct it - and by having this thread, I think it can help SR fix these problems for the next release. The people it kind of sucks for are people who can't really tell when something is out of tune, because they'll think something sounds funny/bad but won't really know how to fix it.
But again, no, it's not acceptable for the long run, but this is the INITIAL release, there hasn't been an update yet (although there will be within a week or so), so I wouldn't be too critical of anyone for these tuning and other problems that crop up in several places.
Feel free to contribute if you find any sounds-related bugs yourself!
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Some of the "bugs" you guys have found are correct and some are not (and are your opinion, which differs amongst everyone). We will fix the ones we agree with and don't mind a thread like this for a head's up. For a little reality check, I hate to tell you that the original Miroslav libraries had more issues than this for sure. A lot of the work we had to do was fixing things from before. Maybe we missed a few things out of 4,000 patches. But, if so then we will fix it for a future update.
Meanwhile, most things can be tweaked to your liking anyway if you find something getting in the way of what you're after. Later on I will clarify more what I said above when we have the update.
Meanwhile, most things can be tweaked to your liking anyway if you find something getting in the way of what you're after. Later on I will clarify more what I said above when we have the update.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1256 posts since 22 Aug, 2003
Exactly what I was explaining to anon! You put it much better not only is this the initial release, it had out-of-tune source material from the original Miroslav libraries, and it all had to be remapped to the Philharmonik engine! So although it's reasonable to expect as issue-free a Miroslav Philharmonik experience as possible, it's not going to be perfect without sufficient time (and without the help of the userbase, unless Sonic Reality is still doing extensive product testing).
Out of curiosity, Squids, could you give an example of a tuning issue/mapping issue mentioned that you would not agree with? I honestly wouldn't want to be bringing up issues that are my own opinion and don't need to be changed, so if I knew which belonged to that category, it would help me from wasting space in the thread and SR's time in checking out the issues (I'm not being passive aggressive here, even though I realize it might sound like it - I'm an extremely straight-forward person what I'm saying here is exactly what I mean - I want this thread to be as helpful as possible).
not only is this the initial release, it had out-of-tune source material from the original Miroslav libraries, and it all had to be remapped to the Philharmonik engine! So although it's reasonable to expect as issue-free a Miroslav Philharmonik experience as possible, it's not going to be perfect without sufficient time (and without the help of the userbase, unless Sonic Reality is still doing extensive product testing).Out of curiosity, Squids, could you give an example of a tuning issue/mapping issue mentioned that you would not agree with? I honestly wouldn't want to be bringing up issues that are my own opinion and don't need to be changed, so if I knew which belonged to that category, it would help me from wasting space in the thread and SR's time in checking out the issues (I'm not being passive aggressive here, even though I realize it might sound like it - I'm an extremely straight-forward person
what I'm saying here is exactly what I mean - I want this thread to be as helpful as possible).