Storm Studio, Reason, FL Studio, and Orion Platinum

[diverdee]

maybe kentucky or wendy's will recognise true talent when they see it & poach y'all

[Cryogenic]

Dang! Suckerd!

But still all you can eat, right?

[arke]

I have been immortalized in your sig

[Wopelka]

we learned to know Cyrogenic as a talentless pompous git

Wow. You learned something, finally.
Tell me, how did you learn this?
Just because you're a 'friend' of kriminal and boned?
Asshat.

they aren't my friends, and i happen to disagree with them on some levels, but i respect them for all what they have provided to this community, freewares, good advice, matter of reflexion and music. and you? apart from being an arrogant little prick, what's your contribution?

[BONES]

they aren't my friends,

Whew! I'm glad we got that sorted before it got out of hand.

[Wopelka]

however, next time you'll wash the moon before my entrance, please

[peejunk]

If my ranting has forced you to think, to try to justify your choices, and that has made you feel uncomfortable, good. I've actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Most recently, that peejunk is a fool.

Bleh... the only thing your ranting has made me think, or better yet, to conclude is what I allready said about you, mr. allmighty authority on profesionalism.

It doesen't have anything to do with host fanboyism, it's about attitude, and yours is slightly too 16-year-old-know-it-all for a man of your age.

Speaking of age, host wars are so old.. and tired...

[BONES]

Says Mr 278 posts in a year-and-a-half. Get some posts up, you loser!

[peejunk]

Says Mr 278 posts in a year-and-a-half. Get some posts up, you loser!

What do you think this flame is all about?

edit: <insert apropriate teenage insult>

[peejunk]

Says Mr 278 posts in a year-and-a-half. Get some posts up, you loser!

What do you think this flame is all about?

edit: <insert apropriate teenage insult>

No more fight? Bastard!

No matter, I'll pick another fight, with the overall state of nerves and issues-ness on KvR it shouldn't be a problem.

[TeeLangSun]

Beyond some very basic things [e.g. most people do seem to understand that there are good reverbs and bad ones] there seems to be so little work or thought or effort put into gauging the quality of anything. They just add up the number of knobs/sliders and decide whether its any good or not, 3xOsc being a good example.

Of course people are steering clear of the "quality" debate. It's difficult to argue about quality since "opinion" plays so strongly into this. I do know that I like a certain reverb over another one and a certain distortion module over another, but I can't seriously argue that my opinion is better than another's. People therefore must focus on things which are truly black and white. One sequencer has this specific ability, another doesn't. That's something that cannot be disputed. Have you seen those threads around here where people jokingly say that Sequencer A definately sounds 20% better than sequencer B? Well, this is why people avoid this kind of argument.

But while on the subject of quality, how about quality of build? You just dismiss the fact that pretty much everybody who mentioned even trying the Orion demo said that it crashed a lot. I can easily state that I've personally found more bugs in Orion than in all the other software I've ever used combined. I sometimes found bugs on the very first day of a new release, within minutes. Some buggy behavior seems to be of no interest to Rich so it never gets fixed. Over the years I've had all manner of strange unpredictable behavior in Orion, and so have many others. Like the fact that Orion is actually capable of recording an audio track while the transport is stopped, and record is not armed at all. Like the fact that both pitch bending and audio recording/monitoring are both dependent upon the PPQ setting. At the default PPQ setting, neither will work. The pitch bending issue has been like this for as long as I can remember in Orion. The audio recording has been this way since it was first introduced in Orion. Both problems survived through all Orion's updates and Rich didn't seem to have any idea how to go about fixing it. He just blamed the pitchbending problem on my keyboard and the audio recording problem on my audio interface although everything else I have works flawlessly with my ordinary Edirol PCR-80 keyboard and Steingberg MI4 interface. Another user on the Orion forum told me to try changing the PPQ setting for the audio recording problem and shockingly, it worked. Then I had the wild idea that it might also work for the pitchbending and again, the PPQ was the culprit. One stone to kill two birds and the developer of the program's best advice was to tell me to get "a high end audio interface" and a "better keyboard". This to me says a lot about why Orion is in the state that it's in, in terms of it's quality of build. You keep talking about the quality of it's synths, but what good are they if they're locked inside a sequencer that has all kinds of bugs and glitchy behavior?

If my ranting has forced you to think, to try to justify your choices, and that has made you feel uncomfortable, good. I've actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Most recently, that peejunk is a fool.

The problem with your ranting is that it's by and large simply your "opinion". Not a drop of which can be proven. But you argue it as if it's actual fact while disregarding things that can be proven. Synth A sounds better than Synth B. True or False?

Lastly, I think you're so focused on the built in instruments in a sequencer while apparently, a lot of us are more interested in how easily a sequencer will let us get a job done and that means features. If I need rewire for example, I have to look at how well it's implemented in a sequencer. You say that this means that we are less interested in "quality" than the bells and whistles. I say you're missing the point. If you miss everything else I say here, please get this last point.

When you choose a sequencer and find that you need something, there are somethings that you can add later and somethings that you cannot. The way I look at it is simple. Give me the sequencer with the most bells and whistles built into the sequencer itself. The last thing I will look at in a new sequencer will be the synths and FX. That's because I've already chosen my weapons. Those weapons must happen to all be VST plugins. I have a favorite everything and I use those favorites in each VST host that I use. What I need from the sequencer is not instruments and FX, I need reliability and I need it to give me the tools to manipulate and sequence the sounds and instruments that I will bring to it. When I buy a sequencer and find that it doesn't do something that I need it to do, I can't add that on later, I stuck with trying to work around it, or buying another sequencer. That's why the sequencer is far more important for me, and apparently others, than the built in instruments and FX. I know where to get those, but I can't add on respectable audio recording. I can't upgrade features that are either missing or implemented so poorly that they're useless. FL's modular approach suits me better and I think the user in general because they're providing a sequencer which has all the bells and whistles for a dirt cheap price and allowing you to bring your own instruments and FX. Orion seems focused on providing more and more FX and instruments while the sequencer itself is unreliable and unpredictable, and comes up way short on features that are important to users. If I did like WaspXT, or the Sampler in Orion, I'd simply wish they were VST plugins so I could take them with me to whatever host I was using.

[TeeLangSun]

do you mean you can't do that

no, all generators are monophonic, you have to open multiple instances if you want to play chords.

As far as I know, none of the generators in Reason are monophonic. Lemme see. Malstrom is poly, Subtractor is also poly, both NN-XT and NN-19 are poly, Redrum is poly and Dr. Rex is also polyphonic. Maybe you're confused about Matrix which is indeed monophonic, but it's not a generator. You could play chords on any of Reason's generators. I'm wondering if you're joking or serious, but it looks like you're serious.

[sdv]

The sequencer however is getting more polished which makes it easier to get something happening right away for those steeped in other apps.

I still prefer playing around with MIDI Parts as patterns and trigerring them from a simple sequence or from my controller.

I admit that's where the most fun is, hooking up Arp, Chord, MIDI & Audio parts for 1-key triggering of mad beats. And those have been there from the get-go.
The sequencer has taken most of the development time and I wonder why Jorgen has spent so much time on it instead of other components (like the sampler) when most user already have a sequencer of choice and can easily bring in eXT as a VST for live work.

So our complaints are the same... seems that the focus of purpose has shifted in it's development.

[original flipper]

HI

I am pretty happy to see the sequencer in XT further developed - I am nowday's using it as my main host/sequencer.

The stability issue mentioned earlier has to be considered as an important 'ingredient' in using any application - I agree that some programs are less stable than others - look, I even get crash-fest's in XT - although it is generally down to a vst, but not always.

If crashing caused me to have a psychotic turn then I would buy Reason (again!) or stick to something that has everything built in and a stable reputation.

But like everything - once you get into an application it becomes second nature: even if it has it's foibles.

What I can't understand though, is - WTF makes people get into slugfest's because they don't agree with another's opinion OR, even, a bit of misinformation?!

Flipper.

[ceenda]

Real irony is, I wouldn't have sold Orion in the first place were it not for the fact that losing projects and crashes were almost prolific.

I would be happy to see Orion 7 have NO new features, NO new generators, NO new effects (which I'm sure would please a certain ORION user no end...) if it could be made to run reliably on a freshly installed machine on which NO OTHER application has stability issues.

Honestly, I've seen more stability at a taxi rank queue at 3am than I've seen whilst using ORION...