KVR Audio

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:50 am

the best part is they actually called it 'vibrato'.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:55 am

still though I think Lab Series "compressor" took the cake...not because it was a bad idea, but back then what the hell could a guitarist do with something so subtle?...

jens · Post by **jens** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:01 am

Hink wrote:
RogerPerrin wrote:Hink, Eric Clapton used tremolo on an album a few years ago - "My Father's Eyes," - for one from the album. It was great, I loved it, and it made lots of money. Used with taste, and in the proper place, it can be used to good effect.

That being said, however, I do agree with you about "Crimson and Clover" being beyond cheese - blue cheese, even. Nothing could have rescued that song, IMHO, certainly not tremolo. OMG, I wish yu hadn't mentioned that song. That is one creepy flashback. Bad dog, bad dog for making that one.
oh I'm sure you can find many songs that used it well...but face it, it's a one time effect. Certainly not like chorus, or reverb that is part of an artists sound...so why did the put it on every cheap amp (I can see a vst tbh as it can be one time use).

I use tremolo regularly and I don't think it's cheesy at all - quite the contrary - imho it de-cheeses sometimes...

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:12 am

jens wrote:
Hink wrote:
RogerPerrin wrote:Hink, Eric Clapton used tremolo on an album a few years ago - "My Father's Eyes," - for one from the album. It was great, I loved it, and it made lots of money. Used with taste, and in the proper place, it can be used to good effect.

That being said, however, I do agree with you about "Crimson and Clover" being beyond cheese - blue cheese, even. Nothing could have rescued that song, IMHO, certainly not tremolo. OMG, I wish yu hadn't mentioned that song. That is one creepy flashback. Bad dog, bad dog for making that one.
oh I'm sure you can find many songs that used it well...but face it, it's a one time effect. Certainly not like chorus, or reverb that is part of an artists sound...so why did the put it on every cheap amp (I can see a vst tbh as it can be one time use).

Remember Maestro? Now there were some good effects, I forget the amp...three initials in the name...it had that great Maestro Phase Shifter in it...really I was just being sacastic, left over from the old days when some punk would tell me Marshall sucked because then they had no reverb...
I use tremolo regularly and I don't think it's cheesy at all - quite the contrary - imho it de-cheeses sometimes...

fair enough...I've always kinda been this way towards fx on my guitar...live I plug right into the amp, drive it from an onboard pre-amp and that's it. A little reverb off the monitors gives me all the "life" I need. Recording though I like a little delay.

I will admit the is based on truly evolved bias, when I was young I couldn't afford all this stuff...so as a youngster would I put it down. Now that I'm older I have learned I don't want much, though I have it. In fact two of my guitars in the 80's and 90's had big black letters 8NEFX...I did use to use my super chorus alot before I got my POD, but that was to split the signal out of my sansamp with little if any chorus...

FWIW tge little delay is why no more letters...

jens · Post by **jens** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:28 am

I get your point Hink and I also like it rather clean nowadays - but I also don't like too many notes and fx if subtely (or let me rather say 'cleverly') used can help to enhance the athmosphere you can get from a guitar when you allow the tone to 'flow' and grow...
- kind of hard to express what I mean but e.g. listen to Madrugada - that guitar player is such a genius and sometimes e.g. he literally 'drowns' his guitar in reverb but it still sounds so organic and intimate and not at all like 80's - and he also uses tremolo a lot and that sort of warmth is what it is good for...

rogerperrin · Post by **rogerperrin** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:28 am

Want a screaming amp that will make you rethink everything, get a Sears Silvertone head from the 60's...

No shit, Sherlock!!! Some of the early 60's amps were the cat's meow, except that they roared!! Some of the Sears Silvertone amps and guitars were made by a company named VALCO, from Chicago, that also made amps for Oahu, Gibson, Gretsch, National,and Supro. Valco was formed by the partners of the old National company that made National (metal bodied) guitars and amplifiers. Latch on to one of the 5 watt Supro's if you ever get a chance. Only a master volume, all compression and distortion came from the large power tube. I'm still kickin myself for sellin the little Supro amp.

guitama · Post by **guitama** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:36 am

I asked for an analog tremelo because I was listening to Bo Diddley, without whom... he had a great sound that is worth playing around with a bit. He played just out of time with the tremelo. What I see here is a lot of stuff that aims to be 'analog' but doesn't have the little voltage and timing variations of analog gear. No wonder the hardware still has horrible prices.
I think people called it Vibrato because Fender called Vibrato bridges 'Tremelo'.
Incidenatally the only real guitar effect I have is a Snarling Dogs wah and I don't like that much.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:41 am

RogerPerrin wrote:
Want a screaming amp that will make you rethink everything, get a Sears Silvertone head from the 60's...
No shit, Sherlock!!! Some of the early 60's amps were the cat's meow, except that they roared!! Some of the Sears Silvertone amps and guitars were made by a company named VALCO, from Chicago, that also made amps for Oahu, Gibson, Gretsch, National,and Supro. Valco was formed by the partners of the old National company that made National (metal bodied) guitars and amplifiers. Latch on to one of the 5 watt Supro's if you ever get a chance. Only a master volume, all compression and distortion came from the large power tube. I'm still kickin myself for sellin the little Supro amp.

remember those crappy sound city amps? Dreadful amps, but my half brother had a (still does likely) 4x10 cab from them that was bad enough to sound good.

rogerperrin · Post by **rogerperrin** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:09 am

Hink, I don't remember the sound city amps.

But I did have a Holmes 4x10 cabinet that was so bad it was kinda good. Unfortunately, I got broke, as guitar players do on a regular basis and sold it all. Now my rig is a Marshall Bluesbreaker overdrive, Zoom 503 amp sim, into my home stereo line in, and out to 10" speakers. Believe it or not, I wouldn't trade the rig. I recently bought a backup Zoom 503 just to have on hand in case. A pod would be fun

but they cost real money compared to my vintage stuff.

4 - 5 years ago we used to find tons of crappy old vintage tube amp stuff in the pawnshops around town, but that seems to have dried up now. I haven't seen anything worth owning in a while.

rogerperrin · Post by **rogerperrin** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:19 am

By the way, Guitama, we're not ignoring you, we just get sidetracked once in a while - pretty often around here, actually. Bo Diddley is quite cool. I'm a real blues fan. That's my main guitar style. It just resonates with me. I like the sound I'm getting with the rig I laid out above, but the tremolo, while very good, is still digital and as such it resets with every note I pick. On the up side, however, it does reset with every note I pick, so that lets it sound natural within a broad tempo range, rather than me having to follow the tremolo frequency. You'll probably find it both ways in vsti's. I don't have a preference in the vst stuff, I just use whatever. Mainly I'm messing with synths that have it built in to the gui.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:09 am

Is there any reason that you couldn't just use automation instead of a pluggin? Seems it might be a little more work but in the long run you can have the ultimate expression and control....

What host are you using Guitama? If you use FL, I bet you could do some good things with the peak controller (which is not what it sounds like) in fact didn't a vst that is similar come out this year? Anybody?

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:09 am

Y'all might want to check out my november KvR contest entry to evaluate the cheesiness of the tremolo effect as provided by the Luxonix plug.

zeoy · Post by **zeoy** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:37 am

The only guitar pedals I currently own are a delay, a tremolo (both from Line 6) ... and a need-a-new-potensiometer-thus-unusable Cry Baby. So I am on the de-cheeser side. For drive 2 12AX7 and 1 12AT7 in the preamp section are enough for me.
On the original question I am using the rednef in top of almost everything

Here's an example

www.show.gr/zeoy/zeoy_TracktionDrumsChallenge.mp3

jens · Post by **jens** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:13 am

Hink wrote:Is there any reason that you couldn't just use automation instead of a pluggin? Seems it might be a little more work but in the long run you can have the ultimate expression and control....

What host are you using Guitama? If you use FL, I bet you could do some good things with the peak controller (which is not what it sounds like) in fact didn't a vst that is similar come out this year? Anybody?

hey, that gives me the idea to experiment a bit with eXT's midi-groove plugin - perhaps I manage to create some pseudo-random speed changes for a tremolo-plugin...

GaryG · Post by **GaryG** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:58 am

I personally love a cool trem sound but if you really need an argument as to why they should be banned all I can say is:

REM - Monster.

<shudders>

.g

Guitar amp tremolo wanted